These are Sri Lankans. We are fighting for them. Photo by Sabral
In love and war being direct is rarely the best option. Everyone from the JVP to George W. Bush to many Sri Lankan bloggers have drawn the obvious conclusion of ‘us good, terrorists bad’. This is, IMHO, true. GOSL sucks but I prefer our lumbering democracy to a terrofacist dictator any day. Unfortunately, pointing out this fact is about as effective as telling a girl she has a nice ass. It may be true, but it’s not how the game is played. The boys are all cock and no foreplay. War – like sex – is all in the mind. They can state the obvious but actually winning this war requires thought, strategy and compromise rather than the chest-thumping of ‘us good, terror bad’. No shit. Now how do we win?
The Truth is Not a Bulletproof Vest
I won’t argue that the LTTE is good. They’re not. I don’t even support a moderate Tamil state because it makes the map look hideous I don’t think a racially defined state is good for anyone. I won’t belabour this point because it’s irrelevant. Stating that the LTTE is bad is true but that doesn’t stop the assassination of Peace Secretariat officials, cleansing of Muslim villages and cutting off of water to thousands more. For the record, that’s just stuff the LTTE has done this week. The truth is good but it is not a strategy in itself. So everyone from the JVP to your local blogger has figured out that the LTTE is bad. Now Prabha is going to be like, ‘Oh shit, why didn’t anybody tell me? Is my fly open too?’ Or not.
That simplistic vision will win debates, it will win elections, but it will not win the war. This war has is much more than a ‘nazis bad’ type situation. However, before I get into that I’d like to clarify who I’m talking about in the Sri Lankan context and who the logic most closely resembles.
Pride
JVP and Hardliners
A lot of moderate to extreme people have a similar opinion which, while being, commendable in its intent, is thoroughly unworkable and doesn’t not lead to victory. That being the important thing, more than pride. I’m sure you’ve seen this argument various places online, but it’s probably elucidated best in the JVPs 20 points, which Neville de Silva reviewed in the Sunday Times:
‘The JVP calls for “reinforcing democracy in the North and East.” While [many] are genuinely concerned with political pluralism and the right of the people in the region to exercise political freedoms, the JVPs objective is easier said than done. How is it to be achieved? That of course is not made clear in that document… The JVP suggests that military power be used to free the Northeast from terrorists and to enforce government rule in uncleared areas.
In short what the JVP says is this. Free the area of terrorism, enforce the government’s edict in the uncleared areas and then hold talks with the Tigers, if the sequential arrangement of the 20-points implies its logic.’
So basically, terrorists bad, any military action is justified. Internally, this argument takes the form of attacking NGOs and any moderates as terrorist sympathizers cause they just don’t see. The LTTEs general suckiness is a justification for military action and that’s all that’s needed. I however, do not care. I don’t want military action for revenge or nominal justice, I just want us to win this war so I can go back to writing about something else. There is a big difference between knowing your enemy and defeating your enemy. There is a difference between military action taken out of pride and military action taken out of strategy and realpolitik. One wins elections and loses wars while the other wins the peace. As one case in point we have,
George W. Bush and the War on Terror
G Dub has a compelling vision of the current struggle in the world and a very idealistic emphasis on the values of democracy and freedom. He has won elections implying that his opponents are soft on terror because of their nuance while his military action is firm and resolute. That simplistic view of the world wins debates and elections. Who the hell is going to argue for terrorism? There’s no weaker argument than ‘er, it’s complex’ so Bush can do all kinds of incompetent and immoral things because he’s got the truth as a bulletproof vest. Or not. That simplistic approach doesn’t win wars and it doesn’t win the peace. That self-righteous pride has resulted in thousands dead in Iraq and a Middle East dominated by the near-nuclear Iran and its proxies in Iraq and Lebanon. Now America has its balls in a vice, but it’s all good cause they’ve got ‘us good, terrorists bad’ to keep them warm at night. However, swallow your pride a little and you might actually stand a chance of winning. Like the recent British bust of a huge terror plot. As Fred Kaplan said in Slate,
“There’s a broader lesson here, and it speaks to the Bush administration’s present jam throughout the Middle East and in other danger zones. If the British had adopted the same policy toward dealing with Pakistan that Bush has adopted toward dealing with, say, Syria or Iran (namely, it’s an evil regime, and we don’t speak with evil regimes), then a lot of passenger planes would have shattered and spilled into the ocean, hundreds or thousands of people would have died, and the world would have suddenly been plunged into very scary territory.”
Anyways, the current US mess shows what happens when you pursue simplistic pride over strategy. Now Sri Lankans are playing the same game at their peril. Real strategy is much more complex than simply saying that terrorists are bad and we should defeat them. Great. How?
Victory
The Sri Lankan ethnic conflict, like most modern ‘wars’, has a few characteristics which make it more than a traditional artillery and land war. These also make winning it different from simply saying terrorists are bad and supporting whatever the military does.
This is a Civil War
We are not capturing land or ‘taking the battle to them’. We are fighting on our own territory, inhabited by our own citizens. In Israel today there’s a notable lack of opposition to the artillery and ground attacks on Lebanon. This is because they’re not bombing Israel. Bombing is pretty shit all around, but it’s quite another thing to bomb your own country.
More than anything the situation in Muttur highlights the criminally woeful state of Sri Lanka’s disaster preparedness. Post-tsunami, we should – like Thailand – be able to send a general hazard warning anywhere in the country, but especially to a region like Muttur. The funds and support were there. Instead we have something like 50,000 refugees and NGOs (evil evil!) being denied humanitarian access to the area. If this was another country the government could be justified not caring, but these are Sri Lankan citizens in Sri Lanka and we are fighting for them.
The people who curse the protestors and ignore the refugees as collateral have already lost the war. They are the terrorist sympathizers because they have given the LTTE that land. They have said, ‘this is not Sri Lanka, and we can bomb the shit out of it without warning or evacuating these people’. They have given up on their fellow Sri Lankans and the united Sri Lanka that protects them. By their callous pride they have ceded our land and people to the LTTE with nary a peep. All for pride. For pride they would lose this war.
Victory in this war means that people in the North and East are provided security and freedom under the Sri Lanka government. The LTTE has unjustly cut off water to thousands of villages and the government is right to respond. The shelling is both government and LTTE, and the LTTE atrocities are much worse. However, unlike the LTTE, we cannot run rampant across the civilian population. Sri Lanka is better than that and we don’t need to model our behavior on terrorist standards. It’s not an excuse to say ‘but the LTTE does worse’. That’s not the standard we hold ourselves to and that’s not what we’re fighting for. There is an obvious strategic and humanitarian advantage to the offensive in Muttur, but GOSL also has the added burden of protecting and evacuating the innocent citizens in that area.
This is not a purely humanitarian issue. It is strategic in that the goal state – a United Sri Lanka – means that they should feel that the government at least gives a shit. Also, terrorist wars are intelligence driven, and it’s hard to get cooperation from people who you’ve displaced and ignored. On both counts GOSL has to hold itself to a higher standard and the peace protestors are doing their fellow countrymen and our national cause a service by saying so. That is victory, and that is true patriotism. Not cynical and prideful militarism, but actual steps towards a united Sri Lanka. That is victory in this civil war. Victory means protecting the people of Muttur and showing that the LTTE are the bad guys, cutting off water and shelling the people we’re trying to evacuate. That would be a global PR victory more than the muddied message that’s getting out now. We can compromise our values to win battles, but we risk losing the war.
A United Sri Lanka is what we’re fighting for, not a simple water supply. We are fighting for those people and their right to be protected by and included in Sri Lanka. That is true victory. The cynical War on Terrorists who say they are just collateral damage have already lost the war because they have given up on those Sri Lankans.
Like the ubiqutious MC Dudes, there will always be jobless and simplistic minions hanging around to tell every passerby that the LTTE is bad. It can be JVP or it can be online. They, however, do not have the courage to go beyond cursing terrorism and engage in the hard, compromising, realpolitik that can truly win this war. Bombing might make you feel better, but it takes actual strategy to win a war. That means you have to put down your anger and take mindful action towards victory, not empty pride.
Um, thanks for the contribution. Kinda empty argument but at least you feel good about yourself
“A United Sri Lanka is what we’re fighting for, not a simple water supply. We are fighting for those people and their right to be protected by and included in Sri Lanka. That is true victory. The cynical War on Terrorists who say they are just collateral damage have already lost the war because they have given up on those Sri Lankans.”
go indi!
great post man. :) my thoughts exactly, i quite enjoyed the ass reference
Victory means protecting the people of Muttur and showing that the LTTE are the bad guys, cutting off water and shelling the people we’re trying to evacuate. That would be a global PR victory more than the muddied message that’s getting out now.
pr esp. global variety is good. and we should try our best to get best results. but global pr alone isn’t going to defeat the ltte. it plays only a minor part.
‘global pr’ is not going to help ppl who are cut off from water, children forced to fight for ltte, civilians held as human shields , or muttur residents ethnically cleansed. any more that in all other similar instances that have happened in the past. it certainly does not help anyone living under the ltte.
that there are ppl who advocate that we should give up or hold fire in face of preventable atrocities so we can get better ‘global pr’ ( for that is what above argument amounts to ) and prove yet again that ltte is bad, i find quite unfathomable.
in another blog i said to mala (i don’t know whether above mala is the same person)” you do not get the sufferings of some ppl. you do not think of them, they do not exit for you, their concerns do not register.” it seems there are more of the same kind of ppl.
what do you call ppl who devalue human suffering to that extent?
A United Sri Lanka is what we’re fighting for, not a simple water supply. We are fighting for those people and their right to be protected by and included in Sri Lanka. That is true victory. The cynical War on Terrorists who say they are just collateral damage have already lost the war because they have given up on those Sri Lankans.
when government fails to protect ppl from being deprived of water it is not going to protect ppl from losing their other rights. that is the basic fact. no amount of fudge like above para can alter that. and a government that does not protect its citizens rights will not win any victory( or peace) worth the effort against anybody .
what does this ‘hard, compromising, realpolitik’ strategy consist of? anyone care to elaborate.
that is where this whole argument fall part . they never say what that is. they always fudge the details and that is why they alway lose the debate. deservedly .
they fudge bc it seems to consist of ‘compromising’ away from fellow sri lankans ( i will limit myself to sri lanka and not pull george bush etc. or overly simplified generalizations, to hide weakness in arguments as some do) their rights, their freedom, their democracy , their right to justice, and even their and their children’s’ right to live in order we can have peace. it consist of giving more power to terrorists when they confront the government with violence and threats hoping that bc they are bad and get bad pr they will ‘lose’ in the end. it consists in other word of appeasement.
it may be hard and it may be realpolitik, if they are frank and admit that is what they want to do.
but they are not honest they hide their own stand (sometimes even from themselves.)
instead of pointing out and arguing for the necessity of morally repugnant compromises on pragmatic grounds ( as realpolitik may call for) , they try to cover it up and fruitlessly try to take the moral high ground. may be they think it will be easier that way ?
even critics necessarily have to limit themselves pointing out the hypocrisy and naivety in their public actions and pronouncements bc of this unwillingness or even inability to publicly spell any coherent realpolitik strategy.
if anybody wants to be honest and argue for a more detailed and coherent strategy based on realpolitik, i for one will welcome that. and criticism of such a strategy would be different the same old argument against appeasement. but instead all we have online is fudge.
in fact there is so much fudge that one is doubtful whether there is any desire to defeat or even to condemn the ltte in all their pronouncements and actions. may be there is no ‘hard, compromising, realpolitik’ strategy merely ltte propaganda and desire to legitimize terrorist actions. and claims. esp. when terrorists are in real trouble as with the timing of the protest.
some details:
not everyone has drawn the conclusion that ‘us good, terrorists bad’, read moju. or read any statement from cpa, psg, etc. which sometimes imply the exact opposite of that.
So basically, terrorists bad, any military action is justified
it is this kind of over simplification that gives lie claims to understand the complexity, or to being ‘mindful’, of the sri lankan situation.
bc that is not the conclusion that most ppl draw. in fact that is not the strategy government with limited resources should or is presently pursing. nobody except extreme warmongers have called for a war to exterminate ltte.
i think ltte is bad but i don’t think any military action is justified or even feasible. see here for what i think and a possible description of the policy the government is actually pursing .
we should .. be able to send a general hazard warning anywhere in the country, but especially to a region like Muttur
sure. if ltte attacks after giving warning. :-)
Instead we have something like 50,000 refugees and NGOs (evil evil!) being denied humanitarian access to the area.
really ? at present in what area in sri lanka ( and i mean all of it ) is there 50,000 refugees who are being denied humanitarian aid ? care to elaborate. if you don’t know don’t lie.
They have said, ‘this is not Sri Lanka, and we can bomb the shit out of it without warning or evacuating these people’.
so you think sri lankan military think ( let alone say ) like that ? shame!
It’s not an excuse to say ‘but the LTTE does worse’.
true. but nobody gave any excuses like that.
There is an obvious strategic and humanitarian advantage to the offensive in Muttur, but GOSL also has the added burden of protecting and evacuating the innocent citizens in that area.
that shows your non familiarity with what happened in muttur.
muttur is not mavil aru.
muttur was attacked and partially overrun by ltte . government merely defended the place. military could not (and should not ) have let ltte to consolidate the positions they captured by a halt to hostilities .( government did call for temporary ceasefire on to let refugees receive aid and leave which ltte did not accept) not only would that have resulted in trinco getting more vulnerable ( meaning more refugees) but jaffna too through the loss of supply line (ie even more refugees). but most of all that would have meant mainly muslim refugees being in effect permanently ethnically cleansed from muttur.
protecting civilians does not necessarily mean halting fire. that is an over simplification
On both counts GOSL has to hold itself to a higher standard and the peace protestors are doing their fellow countrymen and our national cause a service by saying so.
peace protesters were saying lot of things including legitimizing of a war crime if we go by the official document that called for the protest. read it first. running from the facts helps no one.
government by definition hold itself to a higher standard. it will be judged by it. but it is too early to pass judgment.
S. Nut wishes to understand what the Realpolitik approach proposed by Indi is.
“They, however, do not have the courage to go beyond cursing terrorism and engage in the hard, compromising, realpolitik that can truly win this war. Bombing might make you feel better, but it takes actual strategy to win a war.”
First what is Realpolitik? Merriam-Webster says:
Pronunciation: rA-‘äl-“pO-li-“tEk
Function: noun
Usage: often capitalized
Etymology: German, from real actual + Politik politics
: politics based on practical and material factors rather than on theoretical or ethical objectives
Practical and material factors, rather than pride and the stuff Indi talks about.
Let us begin with the material factor of the LTTE’s military capabilities as demonstrated in the past few months.
1. They can attack the Army Commander inside the Army Headquarters.
2. They can attack the Pakistan High Commissioner on the most guarded road in Sri Lanka.
3. They killed the Army’s de facto commander.
4. With the movable claymores, it is almost impossible to guard the roads against assassination anymore. You can sweep the road and have troops shoulder-to-shoulder from Kollupitiya to Parliament, but the mobile claymore makes every three-wheeler a weapon. Short of clearing the roads of all traffic (which the assholes who run defense in this country are likely to do), no politician is now safe on the road.
5. They can kill at will irrespective of geography: Army HQ; road to Parliament (Ananda Coomaraswamy Mavatha is the straight shot to Parliament; you can tell when Parliament is meeting by looking at the street corners on this route); Digana; Aniwatte; Welisara, etc. Bombs have been found even in Buttala.
6. They have long range guns (donated by the GOSL) that caused the SLAF to move all its aircraft from China Bay several years ago, and have now caused it to cancel all fixed-wing flights to Palaly. Prima, the factory that produces most of the flour for the country is under artillery fire.
7. They have attacked the only other means of transport GOSL has to Jaffna, the ships, repeatedly.
In summary: Jaffna is difficult to hold (supply lines under threat); Trinco is under LTTE fire and hangs on the thread of the road through Kantale. A new terror weapon has been successfully deployed making all roads in the South unsafe.
These are material facts.
No bombast; no Manel mal can address these two problems. You can take Mavil Aru but you can’t supply Jaffna; you can clear Muttur but you can’t guard your Army top brass. Those who celebrate these victories are celebrating yesterday’s battles and taking their eyes off today’s challenges.
What can address the real problems? Realpolitik.
In this instalment, I will not provide the answer to the logistics problem (I may not; after all this is a public blog and I do not wish to contribute to the fall of Jaffna). But let us see what Realpolitik tells us about making the roads safe for Keheliya.
All wars are wars of intelligence. Unconventional wars fought against numerically inferior forces fighting for national liberation (don’t get into a hissy fit about this; this is what the relevant parties (the LTTE and the great majority of the Tamil people in the NE believe; it’s their perception and therefore their reality; Realpolitik demands that we see that reality) can only be won by winning the war of intelligence. Do you have more information about what your unconventional enemy will do than he does about you? Can you feed him more disinformation than he does to you?
Take the lorry with the weapons in Mabole yesterday. How was it discovered? Not by the ubiquitous checkpoints (god knows how many it passed on the way to Mabole; does anyone actually go back and hold to account those poor bastards manning the check points that let it through?), but by an observant fruit seller. Intelligence. People informing the forces about an action of the enemy.
Now, how do you win the war of intelligence? Not good enough to have Sinhala people informing you, or Malays or Muslims (but the deshahithaishee are working hard on pissing off the Muslims too). You need Tamils to inform on the LTTE.
What are the pre-conditions for this? For sure, not Kotakadeniya sending his boys to kill schoolboys in Trinco; not Weerawansa’s bellicosity; not empty talk about a unitary state from the mouth of Motta Rala (MR); not the bombing of civilians.
Empathy. What does it take for a Tamil to inform on the LTTE?
Will the government give me and my children a better life than the LTTE? If yes, will the information that I give the government not lead to my being killed by the LTTE? If yes, will the government give me a ton of cash to justify my risk?
Track 1. Give the Tamil people (who were willing to vote for a federal solution overwhelmingly in the 2005 election) a reason to hope for a honorable solution. Keep the political solution on the front burner in the CBK era. Throw out the Deshahithaishee idiots from anywhere near the centers of power. Fire Kotakadeniya; Attack the 20 points on how to lose the war submitted by the JVP in public; throw the bums out; ban them from the propaganda channels. Signal that the government is truly for giving the Tamils an honorable peace. If MR does not have the balls to say he was wrong, just keep Rajagedera and the perks, hand over the government to RW. MR can fire him later, after the LTTE is contained.
Track 2. Safeguard Tamil informants more than gold. Bindunuweva was not good in this regard. Another case of Deshahithaishi kicking own goals.
Track 3. Shovel cash out to informants.
Necessary condition is hope for the Tamils. This government does not give that hope, in words, action or appearance. This government will lose the war of intelligence. This government will lose more Ministers and Forces top brass to the mobile claymores. This government will have to ask Mother India for ships to evacuate the troops from Jaffna.
“They, however, do not have the courage to go beyond cursing terrorism and engage in the hard, compromising, realpolitik that can truly win this war. Bombing might make you feel better, but it takes actual strategy to win a war.”
reality check:
if u go to ltte controlled areas, i.e. whole towns etc. , u will notice ltte offices, ltte police, ltte courts, ltte soldiers, ltte public servants, ltte everything.
in my very modest opinion the war was lost ages ago and sl should face the FACT. so the fighting is for what? to keep them away? to regain lost territory? the gosl has done neither for years, even before cfa,( actually they were busy losing territory. )
to the warmongers (sitting pretty and not enroling in the army etc…i.e. cowards) from a waht u call “peacenik”: u sure u want war? u want to regain territory? what with these gosl forces?! u mjust be joking, they couldnt organize a piss up in a brewery! if it were that easy they ‘d have done it years ago!!!so dont be so cocky, u might lose full scale war (u lost in the past already, there are areas gosl cant enter = losing a war)…esp. when the head of navy makes shifty deals 4 cannons on boats sl navy! (he should be put in prison and the key thrown away, but no, he’s still there!!). so face it.
at this point just give it to them, it’s lost anyway, put up some sort of devolution of powers with special status (like regions in many (democratic) countries) and these killer bastards will automatically fizzle intlo nothing bc theylose all meaning of existence. they will have to face their own people, who will do away with them when they strong enough if they r dissatsisfied, or someone with a grudge (i.e. one out of hundred of thousands is enough) will put a bullet thru them when security becomes automatically relaxd. afer that elections and normalcy (?). maybe…
maybe even the gosl will eventually change, bc it’s totally unprofessinal, cant make decisions, doesnt have plans. this limbo is thei bread and butter, arms deals, growing support, keep the country uneducated, possibly brainwashing them with religion et voila’, guaranteed power for decades on end…a very old recipe, worthy of the thousdn of years histry the country prides itself on…
with a devolution to the ltte then sl could develop and not NEED foreign aid for almost evrything ( thus even get rid of the ngos!!! thus releasing so much space ont he media to discuss seriuos issues) and if u become so good, even the ltte population might think that the gosl side is better and do away with the ltte altogether and request to re-join colombo!!!(like east germany and west germany after the wall). paradise island fulfilled!! u never know what the future holds…
the points u listed go to prove that the forces are incapable of defending the public/itself/ the tamils/ the foreigners etc…
The government still runs the basic health services in those areas. I know that for sure, I think other basic services are the same. The LTTE sets up a lot of fronts to impress the tourists, but they are very much a military force.
Mmmmm, fudge
reduced to parroting me ?
Mmmmm, parrot
aththa
see my reply in indi’s post that contain your comment
galleblogger:
if u go to ltte controlled areas, i.e. whole towns etc. , u will notice ltte offices, ltte police, ltte courts, ltte soldiers, ltte public servants, ltte everything.
if you want to get taken in by a show, go right ahead.
who do you think pays for the real schools, real hospitals, real government servants etc. in those areas? who provides the money to small development projects?
ltte or government? ask a teacher or a nurse in those areas before answering that ?
rest of your comment is even worse fantasy.
ok
Sarvodaya
i agree with them.
btw i saw what i described when it all opened up afetr cfa and people started visiting ltte areas. the fact that gosl does not have control over the territoru is not a show my dear sittingnut. it is a fact (that as i wrote people should realize)
“who do you think pays for the real schools, real hospitals, real government servants etc. in those areas? who provides the money to small development projects?
ltte or government? ask a teacher or a nurse in those areas before answering that ?”
the govmnt of italy for example has paid for some hospitals/ schools for example and many other ingos/ngo/organisations/private people etc. ltte and gvmnt dont care.
“rest of your comment is even worse fantasy”
maybe what is in history books and has happened in SO MANY parts of the world is also fantasy for u or maybe u never opened one of those books?
the fact that gosl does not have control over the territory is not a show my dear sittingnut. it is a fact (that as i wrote people should realize)
of course government do not have military control over the territory. i did not deny that. that is why they are able to put on a show while depending on the government for the creation (new kilinochchi hospital is good example) and maintenance of welfare infrastructure.
the government of italy for example has paid for some hospitals/ schools for example and many other ingos/ngo/organisations/private people etc. ltte and gvmnt dont care.
if you want to live in a propaganda world, thinking that ngos provide all the health care, education, and other welfare services, instead of a small proportion (ignoring governments far greater part) in ltte controlled areas, go right ahead.
remember it is government that will have to pay back loans (soft or not )too.
maybe what is in history books and has happened in SO MANY parts of the world is also fantasy for u or maybe u never opened one of those books?
that you believe the about welfare says a lot about who lives in a fantasy. :-)
Check this out: Moju
If you can get through all the vitriol and crap, there are some interesting predictions.
the government of italy for example has paid for some hospitals/ schools for example and many other ingos/ngo/organisations/private people etc. ltte and gvmnt dont care.
“if you want to live in a propaganda world, thinking that ngos provide all the health care, education, and other welfare services, instead of a small proportion (ignoring governments far greater part) in ltte controlled areas, go right ahead.”
u r distorting what i said. nobody said ALL the health care.
“remember it is government that will have to pay back loans (soft or not )too.”
loans r a different thing from buildings, boats, etc.etc.. they r normally DONATIONS, i.e. f.o.c.ngos/ingo etc do not ask for mney back, unless from a beneficiary in a micro credit loan. nothing to do with gvmnts paying loans. back to the books again?
“that you believe the about welfare says a lot about who lives in a fantasy. :-) ”
what is the meaning? rephrase pls…
more constructive/destructive:
even if a bit cynical, u could always stop what the gosl does in ltte controlled areas. that would show the population that LTTE r unable to manage the territory and lead to the overthrowing of them, (evn if sittingnut u have never heard of revolutions only i have in my fantasy world of course.) back to the books again?
on the other hand they might manage a bit better than gosl (not hard to do that, even lobotomized politicians could that) and they wont join colombo, considering the past treatment received by tamils in these areas, they r probablyshit scared of the sinhalese (normally going around wearing uniforms and weapons…). probably the second option would happen bcasue strangely ALL the tamils (and muslims) i know happen to b very successful/active/generally smart and very business oriented in their lives, of course there r tamils (and muslims) who arent before sitttingnut distorts this too. that is the impression MANY people have, (evn sinhalese).
btw the real content of my post went without comments, u guys dont even want ot remotely think about this recipe hu?what giving away half of our paradise? (where we never go there anyway???!! oh sorry, maybe in some big jeep or a crammed full van/bus for a day trip, like i saw straight after cfa.)
“at this point just give it to them, it’s lost anyway, put up some sort of devolution of powers with special status (like regions in many (democratic) countries) and these killer bastards will automatically fizzle intlo nothing bc theylose all meaning of existence. they will have to face their own people, who will do away with them when they strong enough if they r dissatsisfied”.
like it happened/happens all over the world, sometimes after a few years, sometimes after decades. history is littered with dictators like prabakharan. back to the books sittingnut?
from wikipedia:
From army to quasi-governmental entity
As of December 2005: red areas under LTTE control, orange areas partially LTTE, partly Sri Lankan government, yellow areas claimed but not controlledEven though the LTTE was formed as a military group, it also carries out a number of civilian duties. The LTTE controls sections in the north and east of the island, especially the regions lying outside the major cities. It runs a de facto government and provides public services in these areas, including schools, hospitals, police stations, courts and municipal administration. However it still uses the Sri Lanka rupee and many civil servants are paid by Sri Lanka government in areas controlled by the LTTE… [edit for space]
fantasy?were they taken for a ride too? is the whole world (the one where i live on i mean) so gullible?
i think that point that galle blogger was trying to make is that in sri lanka (not just in the north-east), a lot of what the govt. does is supplemented by foreign aid – most of their infrastrucutural developments are at least partially financed by foreign entities (such as foreign govts, iNGOs).
The govt. does continue to run medical, admin, and educational facilities in the north-east, however that doesn’t take away from what others do. Who actually contributes more, i can’t tell because i’ve never seen comparative figures (have you?). In the NE, all parties (govt., ltte & NGOs) have to work together to provide adequate assistance to the people – everything is so damaged by the war, i don’t think anyone could do it by themselves, not the govt, nor the ltte.
As an example, Kilinochchi hospital is run by the govt. However, some of the buildings have been built by TRO. Some of the staff have their incomes supplemented by TRO (if they are insuffient for living standards). TRO also runs an ambulance service in the region. An iNGO was intending to build a pediatric facility there & provide a pediatrician to train local staff (but that was put on hold/cancelled after the trouble started).
With education, the government does run schools. However, government teachers are not paid well (as in many places in sri lanka) and the non-governmental sector sometimes steps in to supplement low salaries to a livable wage. In places where there are teacher shortages, again, NGOs sometimes step in to find and train volunteers and provide some living costs (then there’s also catch-up education classes, evening classes for people who have had they education disrupted by conflict, vocational training etc. which are sometimes outside what the govt. provides). Pre-school education is entirely outside the govt’s education system, so poorer communities depend entirely on ngo run pre-schools (tro has a huge pre-schooling department, for some 70,000 children throughout the north-east).
community developmental projects that run in the north-east, such as NECORD, NEIAP, NEHRP, etc. are funded by organisations such as the world bank and ADB – partnered with the government, these projects are implemented with the assistance of ngos.
i can keep going with examples, but i hope you get my point.
while the govt. does provide a lot of necessary services for the north-east, they can not and would not provide enough if they had to do it by themselves (again, this is the same for other parts of the country).
i agree totally, finally some sense!
http://www.focuslanka.org/?p=48
educate yourselves… please… written by an academic
you know why the peace talks failed…?
LTTE put out the ISGA… a STARTING point for negotiation
the Govt didn’t respond…
what do you want the LTTE to do…?
the sinhala govt. can’t decide what they want to offer the tamils…
the sinhala govt. has broken every agreement with the tamils:
B-C Pact
D-S Pact
Soulbury Constitution
P-TOMS
so how can the tamils trust the govt…
all that is left to the tamils is:
the LTTE…
please remember that it was the sinhala govt and people created the LTTE through their anti tamil actions and policies… not the tamil people…
you reap what you sow… reap it baby… reap it…
Who exactly is doing the reaping, mate? Looks like the Tamils to me.
er.. No not really what2 do..
LTTE didnt participate for Geneva 2 on matters totally unrleated to the ISGA. The government has to bear the part of the blame sure, but if you are comparing the LTTE and government, (which i think is a futile comparison) the LTTE has more to blame.
I agree there are trust issues with tamils and the government, and that must be resolved the enforced boycott by the LTTE of the last election didnt help that cause.
However, it’s rather primitive, and a classic old LTTE line to label the government as being a ‘ sinhala’ government. if at all it’s a Muslim/Sinhala government if you are somwhow disowning mr Devananda, and Thondaman band as being Tamil.
clearly though the composition of it is not only sinhalese and besides even if it was its elected democratically and must be said yet again elected with the full blessings of the LTTE precisely, perhaps to brand as it being ‘sinhala hardline’ as what you seem to be doing now.
I do not know if you live in SL, but if you do you would notice that there are very many people, yes Sinhalese, who would like to build a Sri Lankan identity. if you dont live here, i can understand. if you do, you should go out and meet some people.
Sure there sinhalese with the superiority complex, but look at the number of votes their polling. it aint the majority.
In regards to that article, I think the vital quote is
The LTTE certainly has the apparatus of a police state, but vital services are still provided by the Sri Lankan government. The void the LTTE fills is a security one. If we could provide security to minorities they’d be much weakened
deane,
you’re not very up on the “peace talks”…
geneva 2: talks about the CEASEFIRE AGREEMENT…
geneva 2 DID NOT have anything to do with the POLITICAL SOLUTION… the WERE NOT PEACE TALKS
that is why there have been no talks on a Political solution since the ISGA…
the LTTE agreed to EXPLORE a federal system and put out the ISGA as a starting point…
what happened…?
the monkeys in the GoSL never responded… thus no talks… vats to talk about…?
geneva 1 & the planned 2 were about the CEASEFIRE AGREEMENT… nothing to do with the POLITICAL SOLUTION…
and by the way… the TNA are the elected representatives of the LTTE… so who’s saying that the LTTE isn’t democratic…
whatever the reason for the Tamils not voting… the fact remains:
1) the SINHALA PEOPLE DID CHOOSE the president…
2) the SINHALA PEOPLE chose WAR…
by the way… do you know how many votes douggie got into power with… 10? 15? fak wit…
why don’t all you einstiens write up a response to the ISGA… get yer govt to put it out and then we can talk…
stop yelling “federal system…”
give us something concrete…
jokers…
you can’t because you’d have the JVP & JHU reaming u up the back door…
do you think the LTTE is funding the JVP/JHU…?
they should if they don’t already… there is nothing the USA fears more than the “reds”…
hahaha… u’all is goin’ to hell in a han’basket…
hahaha
Valid points about devolution, not so sure about devolving power to the LTTE rather the Tamil people. How is of course a sticky point. Of course utilizing galleblogger’s “reality check” reasoning, Europe would still be under Nazi and Fascist control. Control of territory doesn’t mean “victory”. The pendulums swung many times, Jaffna, areas of the Wanni, elephant pass have all changed hands a number of times. But nonsense aside, yes devolution, marginalization of the LTTE would be nice…just a slight problem when the fuckers are so good at sniffing out and snuffing opposition out.
P.S. In regard to the “parrallel administration” the LTTE runs, isnt it interesting that they have the “essentials” like radar guns to catch those oh-so-common speed freaks but not the “luxuries” of healthcare and have to resort to getting their leaders into hospitals in Colombo for treatment.
shimmi and galleblogger
while the govt. does provide a lot of necessary services for the north-east, they can not and would not provide enough if they had to do it by themselves (again, this is the same for other parts of the country).
again i will contend government provide the vast majority of the services and probably almost all the recurrent expenditure (salaries ,manitenance etc.) . i don’t think anybody else can match the numbers. does anybody else spend 8% or so of the gdp ( and certainly much greater proportion than that if we consider only ne) that government spend on welfare. nobody else can pay the teachers, nurses and the rest with anything like what government pays. if they add ( for which there is no proof ) it can only be a small percentage increase.
loans r a different thing from buildings, boats, etc.etc.. they r normally DONATIONS, i.e. f.o.c.ngos/ingo etc do not ask for mney back, unless from a beneficiary in a micro credit loan. nothing to do with gvmnts paying loans. back to the books again?
the fact remains ngos budgets are tiny compared to bilateral ‘aid’ government receives and must pay back. even added up together it wont come close. if it did it should show up in foreign currency flows etc.
even if a bit cynical, u could always stop what the gosl does in ltte controlled areas. that would show the population that LTTE r unable to manage the territory and lead to the overthrowing of them, (evn if sittingnut u have never heard of revolutions only i have in my fantasy world of course.) back to the books again?
really man, you do live in a fantasy, if you cannot figure out why gosl won’t even attempt such a thing.
like it happened/happens all over the world, sometimes after a few years, sometimes after decades. history is littered with dictators like prabakharan. back to the books sittingnut?
dream on, bt do not expect other to do so. competent dictators who know how to keep power do not fall off like that see cuba, or north korea , however much the ppl suffer .and this one is competent in that regard. most of those who fall have to be pushed out, usually from outside.
as for wikepedia, see the top of the page. it says
The neutrality of this section is disputed.
that certainly applies to
It runs a de facto government and provides public services in these areas, including schools, hospitals, police stations, courts and municipal administration
but it seems someone has already edited that sentence :-). maybe after reading this. may be you can edit it back. but one can always check the history there .
anyway as i said they have military power in some areas of the country. their power depend on military power nothing else.
though i am normally delighted to say ‘i told you so’. this time i feel glum. :-(
i told you so.
no amount of proof will ever suffice for the warmongers, anything different to what they blive = u live in fantasy. is it also the kind of dmocracy they advocate?sounds a very fascjst kind of reasoning….thats why there is war,ppl dont face the facts and contiue thinking the same way 4 decades…
la resistance,i partigiani,and th greek fighters [the name i cant remember now], plus many more,All contributed to downfallof nazifasism in europe and not in a marginal way,theyw ere instrumental.not only the armies also the people. btw,it was world war,not a local war…
vat2do, perhaps you are the one misinformed.
it’s quite hilarious that you try to separate the ‘peace process’ from ‘peace talks’ one is part of the other. and all talks on the matter with the ltte, would constitute a ‘peace talk’ regardless of whether the actual content of the discussions is to do with a final solution, or are matters concerning the ‘process’
and it is a process, which will sooner or later will have to be taken up by both sides. the discussions will have to be made on all matters including, but not exclusively the final solution.
When ISGA was presented in 2003, the then government DID respond to it, and was ready for talks. Yes it fell away after that, and yes that is to do with the politcal maneuvering of the southern polity, and yes it’s right to blame the government on that. That’s the case with the P-Toms as well. If it’s a question of commitment and ambiguity then the government is guilty, but not by a direct comparison between the government and the ltte
The crucial oxygen needed for the political maneuverings of the south, orchestrated by the JVP with the help of the likes of JHU and the umbrella Nationalist organisations was provided in earnest by the LTTE. It is the constant breaches of the CFA, political killings and assassinations that made those maneuvering possible.
I doubt that JHU and JVP are funded by the LTTE, but they certainly be working towards the same immediate goals.
I cant remember how many votes Mr Devananda received, cant be arsed enough to check, it was more than 15.
Furthermore, the LTTE ISGA proposals were far from ‘concrete’ as you say. it was not part of a final solution, but rather an interim arrangement until the final solution is being discussed.
On the question of democracy,
i dont know how comfortable TNA would be with your claim that they are elected representatives, but in any case your assertion shows total lack of understanding of the values of democracy, perhaps its the view taken by the LTTe. i don’t know.
The TNA parliamentarians were elected under almost no opposition, not because of the will of the people but rather, because LTTE did not allow anyone other than the TNA to campaign, or to even contest the Election. Even the UNP MP T.Maheshwaren was barred from contesting in Jaffna, area that’s not under the military control of the LTTE, the list can go on.
that’s not democracy but a skewed up version of Fascism.
Sinhalese people might have voted in Bulk for Mahinda, but it could have been the minorities who chose the president. Instead the LTTE took that liberty, like the last two presidential elections.
Your inability look beyond your ethnicity, is reminiscent of your sinhalese counterparts, and for that i pity you.
Actually, talking about the ceasefire agreement IS peacetalks. Talking about the political solution is talking the political solution. Maybe you should get your crossed wires out of your sarong.
And it was actually the LTTE that picked this president, and they deserve him.
When exactly did the LTTE ‘elect’ the TNA to represent the? Must have missed that. I think you’re confusing ‘elect’ with ‘appoint’.
And the USA fears the ‘reds’? Which century are you living in? And fuckwit’s spelled with a ‘u’, take a look in the mirror.
david, david, david… “crossed wires out of your sarong.”…? hmmm, methinks you’re flashing back to your time in the army and what you did to tamils… coupla live wires on the genitals…? bring back any memories… the smell of cooking flesh… how many babies did you slam against a wall david?
the SINHALA people VOTED for the prez
it’s a SIHHALA BUDDHIST country and the sinhala buddhist elected their prez… hahaha… now let them wallow in it…
you can’t “buy” the tamils anymore like in the past when the tamil vote and MPs were “king makers” but only a few tamils in colombo enjoyed the benefits of being the kingmakers while selling their people down the river… the “house slave” (house n*g*er) as opposed to the “field slave” mentalitiy…
the TNA are the elected representatives of the tamil people… elected in indi’s “hallowed” democracy… the ELECTED representatives of the tamil people have stated that the LTTE are the SOLE representatives of the tamil people… ergo… the LTTE are the legitimate representatives of the Tamil people with the valid imprint of the electorate…
USA aint afraid of communists? that’s why they coddling Castro… nuff said… and supporting leftist/communist states around the world… douche bag…
davey we ain’t living in the world of your book where the LTTE cardre drink (like indi) and sleep around… in ur wet dreams…
why don’t y’all just let separation happen… then we can all come together in an “economic union”… i mean we’re going to need people to wash up after us and do the manual labor… hahaha… then your maids won’t have to go all the way to the middle east… what with singapore-nouveau and the booming economy of the new hub of asia (trinco) just on the other side of the island… hahaha
JUST KIDDING KIDS… in reality an independant eelam is best for all… the economy of the south will boom… where do you think all the raw materials and expertise will come from…? there ain’t no capacity in eelam (until all the diaspora come back)… both will boom and then we can return to the paradaise that we should have created after independance but the sinhala leaders couldn’t achieve…
i notice none of you commented on the GoSL’s breaking of all of it’s signed agreements with the tamils…
B-C pact
D-S pact
Soulbury constitution…
P-TOMS
to mention a few…
what’s your feeling on the tamils trusting any agreement reached with the sinhala govt…???
and you are a “fak wit…”
u r (you are) showing ur (your) age david…
loser…
keep ur head down…
peas
hahaha
Vat2Do,
The LTTE pulled out of the peace talks because they weren’t invited by the US to the Washington donor conference. They insisted that the GOSL get them invited, which was never going to happen because no one tells Uncle Sam what to do, and so they used that as a pretext for backing out. The ISGA came after that.
ya, they told all concerned if they weren’t invited to DC (scheduling the meeting in DC is seen as a mistake by all now) they wouldn’t attend japan… which is what happened… the ISGA was under development and was released after that thus showing that while refusing to be “slighted” by not being invite to DC the LTTE was still interested in finding a negotiated solution…
the point is ISGA presented… a STARTING point for the discourse…
GOSL proposal/response: zero, zilch, nada, nothing,
so how can you blame the LTTE…?
it is the GOSL and the south that had no response…
how can have peace or political solution talks with someone (GOSL) who themselves don’t’t know what they want to offer to you (LTTE)…
until the jokers in colombo know what they can offer, what is there to talk about?
what has the GOSL to offer the tamils (let alone the LTTE) other than abstact notions…
GET REAL PEOPLE
what has the GOSL to offer the LTTE other than abstact notions…
Carpet bombing. Coming soon…
David Blacker is right. The Tamil Sri Lankans are suffering a lot more than the Sinhalese Sri Lankans in this war, just because they are the majority in the North East. Things in the rest of the country are close to fine, and have been for most of the 25 years of conflict.
Strange you haven’t noticed this, Vat2do. Maybe after I finish work at my air conditioned office, I can drive myself to Tantra and explain this to you over an imported beer? Or do you think the Heineken is better at the Hilton in Kilinochchi?