I don’t think it’s a case of ignorance. I think it’s a case of perspectives. Most Sri Lankans will tell you that it is a great pity that so many thousands had to die, but that it is also a great pity that so many thousands died over thirty years, and that it would be a great pity if many more thousands were to die over the next decades. They will accept it as necessary to destroy the Tigers and end the war, just as most Brits and Yanks of the ’40s accepted the butcher’s bill that defeating Germany and Japan brought. It was more or less th same viewpoint held by the conservative urbanites when the JVP was defeated.

At the end of the discussion, you have to accept that peace at the cost of defeat is not something that people will accept if there’s a more beneficial option.

DB

What a callous comment!
When Rajapaksa came to power, there was cease fire agreement between Tamils and Government.
Why Rajapaksa started this bloody war ? Insatiable greed ? Rajapaksa wants all and everything ?

I don’t think it’s a “callous comment” — I believe it certainly has much truth to it. When Rakapaksa came to power there was a pretty shaky “ceasefire agreement” between the LTTE (NOT “the Tamils”) and the government. The LTTE had been violating the ceasefire agreement with impunity, killing Sri Lankan soldiers, Sri Lankan civilians and Tamils opposed to their violence. The LTTE laid the seeds for all out war by walking out of the peacetalks with the UNF government and cutting off water to Sinhalese villagers in the east. The rest is history.

The LTTE was never interested in peace or a negotiated settlement.

Omr
Better to have a shaky peace than the horrendous slaughter 40000 women and children

If you have any actual proof of “the horrendous slaughter 40 000 women and children” then please do share it with us. Mere claims and hyperbole aren’t enough.

Omr, didn’t your mother ever tell you not to feed trolls, especially the internet variety.

Yes true…as long as you weren’t one of those whose kids were being conscripted while the ‘shaky peace’ was ongoing. What a blinding lack of understanding of the ground situation you display Sivarajapillai.

DB’s comment wasn’t so much callous as realistic. If the LTTE-Diaspora, the UK, Canada, Australia, etc had acted during the ceasefire to choke funds off to the LTTE then they would have had to negotiate in good faith. Instead of assassinating our foreign minister BEFORE Rajapakse came into power (shaky peace?).

If you look at world history the peace and prosperity of most countries has been bought with blood and suffering of other people, often innocents. Some countries such as the US and Australia are founded in genocide (just because they killed people a 100 years ago doesn’t make it any less terrible). I’m not saying that is ok and right but what happened in SL happened because those who had real control of the situation, the LTTE and their supporters failed miserably to take advantage of the peace that was offered to them. So Palmyrah don’t lose too many nights of sleep, the whole world should generally hang its head in shame.

Omr
Sri Lanka Catholic Bishop said that 149000 people were missing from Vanni.
What happened to those people ? Where they are ? In the mass graves ?
I guess, mass graves are the Sri Lanka Pride and Joy now ?

Which Catholic Bishop? And what makes you think Catholic Bishops are paragons of truth?

What “mass graves”?

Do you have anything besides grand claims?

@ N:

If you look at world history the peace and prosperity of most countries has been bought with blood and suffering of other people, often innocents. Some countries such as the US and Australia are founded in genocide

Actually it makes a huge difference. If 40K Tamils had been slaughtered 100 years ago, no one would have blinked an eye. Go back 300 years and most of the world thought slavery was okay. You can’t use outdated values and perceptions to judge the present.

@ Omr:

Well, there’s plenty of mass graves in the South, so what makes you think there’s none in the North? Same culprit too, just a different time and place.

Who said they are outdated? Look around…they are still very much in effect. Also I hope it doesn’t hurt your brain cells too much but try not to quote me out of context, ‘I’m not saying that is ok and right’

@ N:

I didn’t quote you out of context. I merely said you can’t use the past (beyond a certain marker) to judge the present. A judgement could go either way (for or against).

I disagree that they’re still very much in effect. Most of the world condemns slavery, for example. In general, the Western world would never wage a war of the type that Sri Lanka did, in this day and age. Given the type of weapons the West possesses in its arsenal, it would be easy to cause massive destruction of gigantic proportions. The strategy now is not to “level the whole place and punish the inhabitants (LWPPI)”, but more along the lines of “surgical injection.” So far, while the injections have not yielded a winner in Iraq or Afghanistan, they have succeeded in terms of containment. The problem with LWPPI is not its effectiveness, but its implications – both economic and political – as SL is finding out now. While LWPPI is a purely brute-force technique, reconstruction is obviously not. It requires an entirely different mindset. Diplomacy is essential, not just at the domestic level, but to attract foreign investment as well (which nation can survive today without foreign investment?). 100 years ago, you could ignore the implications, but for obvious reasons, that’s not possible today. Thanks to nano-second technology, people are more enlightened as to what goes on in their surroundings, and hence, somewhat more sensitive.

What “mass graves” Heshan?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sooriyakanda_mass_grave

David Blacker, you have a point there.

Sivarajapillai, Mahinda did not start the war, the LTTE did, have put up a post on that on my blog.

There are a lot of unanswered questions on the end of the war, the Darusman Panel and the C4 video in particular. These are serious questions and a responsible state owes it to its people top put these questions to rest.

Even if Ranil had won the Presidential election, there is no way he would have been able to negotiate a political solution to the Tamil Question, due to the vehement opposition from the South. Even now, when the LTTE has been wiped out for good, there has been no push for a political settlement 2 years down the road. So if we assume that the Sinhalese (and I am referring to the majority here) were never interested in a political solution that addressed Tamil grievances, the only other possibility is that they favored a military solution. Ranil or no Ranil, the military solution was inevitable, and not just because of the double games played by the LTTE.

Heshan,

Re: Ranil and a political solution. I agree that RW would not have been in a position to negotiate a major solution but I contend that that would not have been necessary and the LTTE would have been eliminated.

Why?

1. LTTE hardcore support was a minority. Others went along. A generation that grew up during the war did not know of any other existence.
2. Under the CFA people’s eyes opened to the possibilities of another existence.
3. Thus the overwhelming majority wanted the peace to continue and cracks started appearing within the LTTE and the Tamil populace.

Although we tend to see the Tamils as one homogeneous lot, there are many different factions within. In the face of a common enemy they were united, remove the common enemy and the cracks appear. The Karuna breakaway was the most significant but this was not the only one and the entire edifice was crumbling from within.

4. This is why P either needed a very quick solution which gave him a lot of power(which could not be delivered) or a return to war. A war could unite the people again by projecting the common enemy and would give him a chance at power. Left alone it would have crumbled from within so he really had no choice, if he wanted to be placed in a position of power.

5. True the LTTE were amassing arms but they were having trouble holding on to the cadres who were deserting, getting married, trying to go abroad and generally enjoying a soft life. Had it continued he would have had weapons but very few people left to use them.

This strategy is called draining the water from the pond, leaving the fish to die. Takeaway the support and the movement will crumble.

Read Anton Balasingham’s speech (on Maveerar day I think ) where he condemns RW, I think it confirms my view.

Remember the original grievances (language and thus education and employment opportunities) are now gone (private education in English, locally or abroad, job opportunities in the private sector and abroad), the movement was feeding on itself.

This is only of academic interest now, but worth thinking about.

Also the military victory would have been impossible without the CFA. The breakaway Karuna factor gave the government two things (1) LTTE lost a large number of their best fighters (2) it gave them solid intelligence, which they never had before. Without these I don’t think a military victory would have been possible.

“Although we tend to see the Tamils as one homogeneous lot, there are many different factions within.”

That’s very true. For example, reading all the caste related articles written by Tamil writers on the Sri Lanka Guardian website shows how deeply embedded the caste system remains among the larger Tamil community, and how it affects attitudes and behaviour within the Tamil community. To me it appears as if the LTTE seemed to have fostered and used hatred towards the Sinhelese, Muslims (read Non Tamils) and the Sri Lankan state to keep the Tamil community united.

Good points there, Jack. I agree in theory that economic growth would have had devastating consequences for the LTTE. In fact, I made a similar argument elsewhere:

The ideal thing to do would have been to economically/politically isolate the LTTE, via some kind of protracted CFA, and even get the Tamil diaspora involved in the process. Create a genuine political space for Tamils from all parts of the island to voice their grievances. By genuine I don’t mean TNA or making Karuna an MP. More like an intermediary between the government and LTTE, with a fair amount of political clout .

http://indi.ca/2011/07/the-war-is-over-tell-your-friends/

I also mentioned that the LTTE could not have survived after Prabhakaran, due to a lack of organizational expertise (Prabhakaran was an organizational genius).

I’m not too certain if economic isolation alone would have brought done the LTTE. You would still need the political solution and a downsizing of troops, particularly in the Jaffna Peninsula. You can only convince investors so much to do business in an environment overshadowed by 40K troops. By investors, I mean genuine investors that take an actual risk, as opposed to the Chinese type that enjoy the patronage of GOSL. On the other hand, downsizing the troops during war-time poses obvious national security risks. Nevertheless, it’s not too far-fetched to speculate that a strategic economic plan – which balanced national security with long-term macro goals – could have done the job, so to speak. At the least very least, it would have brought the LTTE to the negotiating table and given GOSL an upper hand in any such talks.

You’re right that the LTTE edifice was crumbling. VP lost Balraj, Karuna, and Balasingham. The Sea Tigers had lost their naval strength, thanks to India taking a more pro-active approach against smuggling, which posed major logistical difficulties for the LTTE. In fact, I added a timeframe to the demise of the LTTE – 10 years, give or take – given Prabhakaran’s deteriorating health:

There is no possibility of an armed insurrection re-occurring in the North. I don’t think even the Tamil diaspora want it to happen again. They supported Prabhakaran because he was there from the beginning; there was no way to kick him out – even if he was kicked out, there would be no one to replace him. I would say, Prabhakaran was a phenomenal 70?s/80?s/90?s star but he completely failed to understand the post-911 geopolitical reality. Any new armed insurrection would need at it’s head, someone of VP’s caliber, in addition to the fact that such a person was able to understand the new reality. Someone who could successfully engage the SL forces, despite the latter having the full military backing of not just India but China. If it was a Muslim extremist group, this could probably be accomplished. Otherwise, no .

Basically, the LTTE would have “disappeared” after Prabhakaran, war or no war, sometime in the next 10-15 years.

Regarding Karuna, yes, he was essential as far as providing intelligence went. Although I believe the war could have been won without Karuna’s defection, it would have taken a lot longer, and resulted in several hundred thousand more casualties.

Heshan, your hypotheticals sound interesting and optimistic but they are just that – hypotheticals. Coming back to reality, though, the LTTE has been crushed militarily.

Heshan,

true enough, however remember that in 2003 we had a far smaller army, so downsizing would have a lot easier. I can’t remember the numbers but I think about 100-150k and we had a defence budget of Rs.70,000m, which the UNF government cut down to about Rs.35,000m in 2002.

I think the roots of conflict lie in competition for resources so its primarily economic. Have you noticed an upsurge of violence in N Ireland – post financial crisis? A similar thing happened in Indonesia – the Chinese population were attacked after the Asian economic crisis in 1998/9.

Poverty breeds disaffection. The reason Malaysia has been relatively stable, despite much overt discrimination is that living standards have improved and there is enough economic opportunity for the minorities.

On “proper” investors, what you describe is termed “rent-seeking” activity, not entrepreneurship. Basically, get the government to create monopolies and then resell these to others.

Land in Kalpitiya and the East is a good example. All have been parcelled out to cronies and the cronies are now trying to “flip” them to investors. Unfortunately at the prices quoted very few projects are viable so very little is getting built.

I think the roots of conflict lie in competition for resources so its primarily economic

I think Kumari Jayawardene said a similar thing:

Sri Lankan Muslims were merely a silent cultural community until the beginning of the modern era, which is marked by the semi-capitalist transformation of the Sri Lankan society which had been taking place during the 19th century under British rule. During this period, the traditional feudal system and the self-reliant village social structure were gradually collapsing and a semi-capitalist social system based on a newly introduced colonial economy was emerging, introducing some new social class formations. The underdeveloped new colonial economy that replaced the older selfreliant social system was not capable of adequately catering to the needs of the newly emerged social classes, and this inevitably led to the different communities competing with each other for their economic prosperity on communal or ethnic lines.

If we look at the Sri Lankan economy after 1948, it didn’t careen off in entirely new directions. Other than the garment industry, there are not very many new productive sectors that I can think of. The tea industry hasn’t been modernized – tea is still handpicked (although there are certain benefits to this). Tourism is the same, except for the volume. Most of the population is still engaged in subsistence agriculture using “traditional” methods. The major difference now is that the members of the elite classes whom KJ refers to esewhere – Jayawardene’s/Bandaranaikes/etc. – dominate the civil service. Their primary goal seems to be the preservation of the family dynasty. The picture is changing slightly, however, as at least part of that elite is shifting from a Colombo 7 breeding ground to a rural powerhouse (enter the Rajapakses). IMO, it looks almost as if SL is heading back to pre-colonial days… Rajapakse is more or less a king, with unlimited powers. His hand-picked military governors hold the “keys to the kingdom” in the North and East. Just like the king owned all the land ( and resources therin) in the ancient days, Rajapakse owns all the land in the country (to be administered by proxy). Just referring to “land” may seem like an oversimplication, but it’s probably the most important of all the four factors of production. You can’t develop something that doesn’t exist.

In fact, I’ve often felt that a good segment of the Sinhalese elite were opposed to Tamil prosperity, more than Tamils themselves, which goes along with what you say about the Chinese being attacked. Giving Tamils their own piece of land to administer autonomously might lead to untold prosperity. When the Nazis came to power, they stripped the wealth away from Jews, since a picture of wealthy Jews would undermine the confidence of the more “Aryan” populace. In the SL context, the “king” and his cronies will not let the North outperform the South in terms of economic growth or development. That may sound audacious, but as I said earlier, much of the best land in the North and East is owned by either Rajapakse or one of his cronies.

It will be interesting to see how the Sri Lankan economic picture pans out over the next two decades, but I’m not holding out any high hopes.

Sri Lanka reverting to a feudal, pre-colonial stage? Well put, Heshan.

Jack,

It’s feudal in the sense that Rajapakse & Co. can commandeer land and property at their will, as well as imprison individuals who oppose their policies. You have the same family in charge of the government and military – what does that tell you? The Constitution exists, in theory, but the safeguards to ensure checks-and-balances do not exist, effectually granting the Executive absolute power (in Medieval Europe, the monarchy was thought of as an absolute monarchy, since it had unlimited administrative jurisdiction).

You might argue that my view is rather pessimistic; that everything could change with a single election. I will bet you any amount of money that Namal Rajapakse will be the next President of Sri Lanka, once the present incumbent leaves. As you know, there are no term limits; this means an incumbent, regardless of how corrupt he may be, is never forced to leave office via the law (Constitution) alone. As you know, Rajapakse has done a fine job of entrenching the judiciary under his grip. The election commissioner has no power, by law, to annul the results of an election.

You might argue that there are still intellectuals on the island. I would agree with that; there are some brilliant people (despite the brain drain), but they are not in a position to address policy issues. The term here is “outspoken.”

You might argue that big companies will come and invest like they did in South India. Here I would point out that the global recession will last at least another decade (it would take the US at least 10 years just to cut its budget deficit by 1/3), so the sort of start-up bubble that hugely benefited India will never see the light of day in S. Lanka, at least not for a long time. There is plenty of cheap labor elsewhere, particularly in China and the rest of the emerging markets; big companies have a greater incentive to invest in those places, given the growing middle class and high demand that ensues from the latter.

Of course, you yourself might not argue any of these things, which is perfectly fine; I’m just laying out the arguments and counterarguments. And of course, people can still lead prosperous, successful lives in SL from cradle to grave. It’s just that it’ll be a lot harder to do for a very long time to come.

Heshan, don’t get me wrong I agree with you completely with your analysis of our feudal future and all of the issues you mention above :)

Major investors will be few and far between, the corruption will deter them. What we will have is rent-seeking activity which will benefit largely the new elite.

Maybe Indi needs to organise another bloggers meet so we can chat at leisure.

Well, the Tigers did that for their own reasons, didn’t they? They also have prevented Tamils voting in many previous elections; that doesn’t invalidate any of those elections.

The Sinhalese polity makes up most of SL, Myil; but I know many non-Sinhalese who feel the same. As long as you believe SL is run by a dictatorship and only concentrate on changing that dictatorship while ignoring the people of SL, you will never get the change you seek.

Well, if the elections commissioner wanted to he could have invalidated them. But hey this is Sri Lanka. But just because it was not invalidated that doesn’t mean it was democratic.

Tigers did it for their own reasons, true, and Mahinda for his own reasons helped them do it.
Yes, sinhala polity makes up most of SL, I just said it. Why are you repeating it?

In practice isn’t it like a dictatorship? Anyway, what I’d like to see is the leadership keeping to their word and implementing meaningful devolution. I’m not ignoring the people, in fact well awareness of their fickleness. But we all know it takes leaders to galvanize and give direction to the people. Besides, I think Mahinda is ignoring the people, Thamil people and Sinhalese who stand for a truly multifaceted Sri Lanka.

“But just because it was not invalidated that doesn’t mean it was democratic.”

Well, what’s the point of invalidating every election when there’s no option of those tamils voting while the Tigers existed? Would you have felt it more democratic to have no elections?

“Tigers did it for their own reasons, true, and Mahinda for his own reasons helped them do it.”

How did Mahinda help the Tigers boycott the elections? Wouldn’t it have been beneficial to the Tamils if he lost the elections?

“Yes, sinhala polity makes up most of SL, I just said it. Why are you repeating it?”

The actual question is, why did you bring it up in the first place, Myil?

“In practice isn’t it like a dictatorship?”

How so? Look at what happened with the pension scheme? The people protested and the GoSL backed down. Do dictatorships do that? You have to realise that the people are supportive of this administration, and they are able to do the things they are doing mostly because people are OK with it.

You can give people direction, but you can’t go against their will. MR maybe ignoring certain groups of people who are for a multifacted country, but those people are a minority (and I don’t mean an ethnic minority); most people are not bothered about that; they have more important concerns.

Well, if the elections commissioner wanted to he could have invalidated them. But hey this is Sri Lanka. But just because it was not invalidated that doesn’t mean it was democratic.

Not only that, but Mahinda paid the LTTE a large amount of money to force the boycott. Since Sri Lanka was technically at war with the Tigers at the time, it follows that Mahinda should have been tried (and possibily convicted) under pre-existing anti-terrorism laws . The difficulty is that it would had to have been done before he was elected, since the Executive is granted blanket immunity from any sort of prosecution.

“Well, what’s the point of invalidating every election when there’s no option of those tamils voting while the Tigers existed? Would you have felt it more democratic to have no elections?”

If the elections were invalidated then there is an onus on the GoSL and also the Int’l community to ensure a proper election the second time around, or third or fourth time. I bring the Int’l community into the picture since they were the co-chairs and had promised big money for development at the time. It would have probably got India more involved as well and have forced the GoSL to take a firmer stand in giving protection to the voters of the Northeast, which would have meant to ask for international observers and volunteers to election duty. It might also have helped the other players in the international community to send election monitors and also take a tougher stand on the LTTE and put pressure through the LTTE front groups operating in the international community of dire consequences. Anton Balasingham could have been roped in to send a strong message. If there was a will it could have been done to ensure a fair election. It would have cost more money and resources but if we truly value democracy then we should have been willing to go all out to ensure Democracy for all our people. This probably would have ensured a freer election the second time around. But there must be that WILL. It could have been done.

“How did Mahinda help the Tigers boycott the elections? Wouldn’t it have been beneficial to the Tamils if he lost the elections?”

Thank you for your phenomenally thought provoking question. Since you keep insisting that I spell out everything for you. Beneficial for Thamils, yes. Not so for Tigers. Politics makes strange bedfellows! There is a difference, Tigers – T,I,G,E,R,S and Thamils T,H,A,M,I,L,S.

“The actual question is, why did you bring it up in the first place, Myil?”

Because by saying Sri Lankan some try to pose it off as if though it is a multicultural initiative, which in reality it is not. It is the sinhala polity that is mainly braying for the kill.

“In practice isn’t it like a dictatorship?”

“………..Do dictatorships do that? You have to realise that the people are supportive of this administration, and they are able to do the things they are doing mostly because people are OK with it.”

So now are you vying for advertiser in chief in the Rajapakse dynasty?

I said “like a dictatorship”. Emphasis, LIKE. What you say is true. But government officials are saying they haven’t actually backed down and that it(pvt sector pension scheme) is coming back. As for the people, once again, just to be specific it is the sinhala people who are with the Rajapakses for now. That shows one of the pit falls of democracy, majoritanianism. Which is probably why people like Socrates and Plato did not like democracy as it was akin to mob rule. But my main point, our constitution allows for too much concentration of power in the executive, hence ‘like a dictator’.

“You can give people direction, but you can’t go against their will. MR maybe ignoring certain groups of people who are for a multifacted country, but those people are a minority (and I don’t mean an ethnic minority); most people are not bothered about that; they have more important concerns.”

Are you sure they are a minority? I think it could be a majority, i.e., people wanting a multifaceted country. If you put the Muslims, Thamils, Burghers and a big Minority of Sinhalase. But as you said it is not one of their priorities. Maybe cost of living, jobs, etc are higher up on the list.

Agreed. And that’s why they say “We deserve the governments we get”. But not for the Thamil people. That’s why we need a change in our governance structure. But the sinhalese aren’t allowing that and wanting to dominate the Thamils. How do we get equality to be able to find mutual benefit within the Sri Lankan system?

“If the elections were invalidated then there is an onus on the GoSL and also the Int’l community to ensure a proper election the second time around, or third or fourth time. “

Really? And so you plan to allow the incumbent administration to stay in place for whatever number of years it takes to have an acceptable election? You think that’s a more democratic alternative? The entire country waits ’til the Northern Tamils get their shit together?

“I bring the Int’l community into the picture since they were the co-chairs and had promised big money for development at the time. It would have probably got India more involved as well and have forced the GoSL to take a firmer stand in giving protection to the voters of the Northeast, which would have meant to ask for international observers and volunteers to election duty.”

Really? But the GoSL held no writ in the areas where the boycott was being enforced. That was Tiger territory, and the international community had ably proven their inability to get the Tigers to do anything they didn’t want to. The latter had already rejected Indian involvement in any form of observation and threw out the Scandinavian monitors as well. Do tell us, Myil, how these voters were to be protected.

“It might also have helped the other players in the international community to send election monitors and also take a tougher stand on the LTTE and put pressure through the LTTE front groups operating in the international community of dire consequences. Anton Balasingham could have been roped in to send a strong message. If there was a will it could have been done to ensure a fair election. It would have cost more money and resources but if we truly value democracy then we should have been willing to go all out to ensure Democracy for all our people. This probably would have ensured a freer election the second time around. But there must be that WILL. It could have been done.”

HOW could it have been done? Why would Balasingham have sent a message contradicting VP? Has he ever done so before? What dire circumstances could the front groups have been threatened with? And why was the international community unable to get the Tigers to stay with negotiations by using similar pressure? Could you explain these inconvenient details to your grand but vague plan?

“Thank you for your phenomenally thought provoking question. Since you keep insisting that I spell out everything for you. Beneficial for Thamils, yes. Not so for Tigers. Politics makes strange bedfellows! There is a difference, Tigers – T,I,G,E,R,S and Thamils T,H,A,M,I,L,S.”

While you get top marks for spelling, the question wasn’t on spelling, Myil? I asked you how Mahinda helped the Tiger boycott? He was very hawkish in his campaigning, RW wasn’t. The Tamils didn’t want war, but peace. The Tigers wanted war. So they enforced a boycott. So how did Mahinda help a boycott?

“Because by saying Sri Lankan some try to pose it off as if though it is a multicultural initiative, which in reality it is not. It is the sinhala polity that is mainly braying for the kill.”

Oh, it IS multicultural — many Moors, Malays, Burghers, and Tamils do believe in this regime, and did vote for it.

“So now are you vying for advertiser in chief in the Rajapakse dynasty?”

If you feel pointing out the truth is advertising, that’s upto you :)

“I said “like a dictatorship”. Emphasis, LIKE.”

So you accept that it’s not a dictatorship, but LIKE a dictatorship. How is it LIKE a dictatorship when you cannot find anything dictatorlike in the examples we are discussing?

“What you say is true. But government officials are saying they haven’t actually backed down and that it(pvt sector pension scheme) is coming back.”

They can say what they like, but the point is that the bill was stopped from being passed. They can bring it back again, and it can be stopped again. Or passed if it is suitably modified. However, there’s nothing dictatorlike in trying to get a bill through parliament.

“As for the people, once again, just to be specific it is the sinhala people who are with the Rajapakses for now. That shows one of the pit falls of democracy, majoritanianism. “

No, it’s not. I know many non-Sinhalese who voted for MR & Co and still support what they are doing, just as I know many Sinhalese who didn’t vote for them and hate them.

“Which is probably why people like Socrates and Plato did not like democracy as it was akin to mob rule. But my main point, our constitution allows for too much concentration of power in the executive, hence ‘like a dictator’.”

Socrates and Plato didn’t live in a multi-cultural society, where one ethnicity had majoritarianist advantages. In fact there wasn’t even universal enfranchisement, and many classes weren’t allowed a vote. Socrates and Plato were elitists who believed that an educated elite should make the decisions, not the common man. It’s a hilariously absurd comparison, Myil, but one typical of you :D You may disagree on the imbalance of power with regard to the executive, but those powers are far more stongly manifested in things like the PTA and the ERs rather than the constitution, but there are no dictatorial powers. So unless you can be realistic, you’re looking a bit silly.

“Are you sure they are a minority? I think it could be a majority, i.e., people wanting a multifaceted country. If you put the Muslims, Thamils, Burghers and a big Minority of Sinhalase. But as you said it is not one of their priorities. Maybe cost of living, jobs, etc are higher up on the list.”

I think the majority of Sri Lankans have never lived in a multi-faceted society. Colombo or Kandy or Galle is not SL. Most people in SL live in mono-ethnic villages and hamlets. They don’t even know what multi-faceted is, never mind wanting it. If in fact the majority wanted a multi-faceted country, RW would have won the elections, boycott or no.

“Agreed. And that’s why they say “We deserve the governments we get”. But not for the Thamil people. That’s why we need a change in our governance structure. But the sinhalese aren’t allowing that and wanting to dominate the Thamils. How do we get equality to be able to find mutual benefit within the Sri Lankan system?”

The Tamil political parties need to lift their eyes and look for issues and alliances that affect more than just the Tamils. There is no reason they can’t find common goals that they can ally with the JVP to achieve — like the removing of the ERs. Is the governnance structure going to change by magic because you want it to? Don’t be childish.

“Isn’t being Sri Lankan a communal thing?”

If that were true, we wouldn’t have had a war. Being Sri Lankan is certainly NOT a communal thing. Most Sri Lankans (unlike Indi’s urban English-speaking friends) find community in their ethnicity, in being Sinhalese, Tamil, etc. Do you therefore hang your Tamil head in shame when you know what the Liberation Tigers of TAMIL Eelam did?

“No government promises such things on campaign trails.”

Perhaps you were not around when the campaigning happened, Myil, but the PA coalition campaign for the presidency included the JHU and the JVP, and there was no mincing of words that they were proposing a military solution. It was this proposal that made the Tigers opt for MR as prez; they wanted war too. Unfortunately for them, the dumb fucks didn’t know that the grass had grown under their fat arses.

“you and I understand how Mahinda got himself here, so don’t try to hide behind democratically.”

There’s nothing to hide. MR is a professional politician and got where he is by playing the right cards. You might think that dirty, but it’s a dirty game; however, it is still a democratic game.

Dear David,
Being Sri Lankan is a communal thing. Unfortunately not in Sri Lanka. But it is a communal thing, if you look at the definition of it, maybe not in practice. It doesn’t matter what the sinhalese or Thamils find community in.
Yes, I do feel shame or remorse when I hear of the suffering of people because of LTTE actions. I guess that’s being human and accepting the truth. Do you feel shame or remorse for the suffering caused by the SLA?

David you know what I mean. Why is it that I have to spell everything out to you? JHU and JVP yes and also Mahinda. But Mahinda doesn’t explicitly say we are going to kill thousands or that thousands have to be sacrificed. You said he is an expert politician. Expert politicians don’t say stuff like that. yes, LTTE knew the inner motives of Mahinda and that’s why they wanted him, because they wanted war.

It’s not that the grass had grown under their …………. but rather under the Indians and International community’s
Why use expletives, no need to lose your cool. Let’s just talk in decent language.
Thanks

Dear David,
It is not a democratic game when the rules are being violated. Politics does make strange bedfellows!

“Being Sri Lankan is a communal thing. Unfortunately not in Sri Lanka. But it is a communal thing, if you look at the definition of it, maybe not in practice. It doesn’t matter what the sinhalese or Thamils find community in.”

Really? So you say being Sri Lankan is a communal thing, but it isn’t so in Sri Lanka??? Which country are we discussing then? If Sri Lankans don’t find community in being Sri Lankan, how can it be said that being Sri Lankan is a communal thing? We are talking about an emotional feeling, a feeling you say doesn’t exist. So how can you base an argument on something that doesn’t exist? So what people DO find community in is what is important to them, and is in fact my point.

“Yes, I do feel shame or remorse when I hear of the suffering of people because of LTTE actions. I guess that’s being human and accepting the truth. Do you feel shame or remorse for the suffering caused by the SLA?”

Then why is that you didn’t say that you felt ashamed as a Tamil; but instead said that you felt ashamed as a Sri Lankan? Is it because you’d rather shame the Sri Lankan community you have no affinity to rather than the Tamils with whom you do? No, I don’t feel shame or remorse for acts committed by soldiers, because I have no responsibility for what others do. The SL Army itself didn’t set out to cause suffering but to reverse the suffering caused by the Tigers.

“David you know what I mean. Why is it that I have to spell everything out to you?”

Because the devil is in the details, Myil; inconvenient details that you prefer to gloss over in favour of vague generalisations and emotional appeals.

“But Mahinda doesn’t explicitly say we are going to kill thousands or that thousands have to be sacrificed.”

Nobody does, Myil. Churchill never said we’re gonna kill millions of Germans and Japanese. Clinton never said he was gonna kill 500,000 Iraqis when he placed those sanctions. No one intends to kill people like that, but that’s what happens when you go to war. And MR very definitely made it clear he was going to war. It was his primary campaign against RW’s one of diplomacy.

“You said he is an expert politician. Expert politicians don’t say stuff like that. yes, LTTE knew the inner motives of Mahinda and that’s why they wanted him, because they wanted war. “

Expert politicians say what is neededed to get votes, that’s all. So you accept that it was the Tigers that took us back to war with their boycott?

“It’s not that the grass had grown under their …………. but rather under the Indians and International community’s”

Rubbish. The international community supported MR in this war. If they underestimated the bloodiness of the war (and I say IF), it wasn’t because of complacency. It was the Tigers who were complacent and didn’t realise the world and the SL military and the GoSL had all changed while they sat in their bunkers and ate vadai.

“Why use expletives, no need to lose your cool. Let’s just talk in decent language.”

I’m quite cool, don’t worry. I believe in calling a spade a spade and an arse an arse.

You’re writing again during working hours! Hence my query on GV – “Do you get paid for blog posts?”
Even though I write during working hours today, I’m not working today.

To come back to your retort.
It’s not about being racist or bigoted, it’s about outing the closet racists and bigots. And about the TRUTH and about those who want to truly embrace multiculturalism. Because in the Sri Lankan context it is important. Why? Because minority identity is being suppressed and the majority Sinhala identity is being promoted as Sri Lankan. And you have Tourist brochures parroting Sri Lanka as a multi-ethnic, multi-religious country all for the sake of Tourist dollars. But what do we really have on the ground? Sinhalisation in subtle and not so subtle forms. Indi spoke of Colombo being majority Thamil speaking. Seriously, can I speak my way through in Thamil in any government department in colombo or if I wanted to take a bus?

My point, Minorities aren’t being truly valued. But some in the majority community use their connections to minorities to pontificate about multiculturalism, while failing to truly embrace it. Hence my query.

What has any of that to do with your rather obnoxious question about whether Indi’s GF feels inferior if she spoke Tamil? This from a guy who can’t be bothered to spell Burgher correctly. Doesn’t say much about your own respect for multiculturalism, does it?

myil why aren’t you worried about indi’s girl’s inability to speak dutch, provided she’s a dutch burgher of course.

To David Blacker,
The fact that you are nit picking on spelling mistakes shows you are lacking in substance.
I didn’t know a spelling mistake was considered racist? But in the book of fiction writers, any things possible.

Anyway the main point is Thamils don’t feel free to express their identity. It is looked with suspicion. Hence Thamils who mix with other ethnicities generally tend to adopt the other ethnicity’s identity. Which probably is what happened with you. Did you study in the Thamil medium? probably not. If not why? The same happened with the Jews in Europe who adopted european names and changed their religion in order to cover their jewishness to get ahead in life. Because being Jewish was considered a liability.

Burghers (hope I got the spelling right?) generally put their children in the sinhala medium and not Thamil because they know life would be easier in the majority’s medium rather than a vilified minority’s. Even some Burghers from Batticaloa have put their children in sinhala mediums. They want the best for their children and they know in a country like Sri Lanka,which is racist and not totally free, it is best to assimilate with those in power to have a better chance at life. I know quite a few from mixed families who end up in the sinhala medium. Heard only a rare few who would put their children in the Thamil medium with the father being sinhalese or the mother being sinhalese.

In such a culture minorities feel inferior to express their identity. Hence my question?
Anyway Indi shouldn’t use his girlfriends Thamil/Burgher heritage to show that he values multiculturalism. It’s not like he fell in love because of her heritage? I’d like to know if Indi were to marry and have a child in what medium he would put that child? Given, of course, he married or had a child with his current girlfriend.

To Way of the Dodo,
I don’t know if she is Dutch Burgher. There are also those considered Portuguese Burghers. But if there is a Dutch or portuguese medium in Sri Lankan schools, then I would have asked, Why not Dutch or Portuguese? But we have Thamil and Sinhala in Sri Lankan schools, so only those come into play. English is now introduced in Sri Lankan schools, as opposed to International schools. But I don’t think during Indi’s girlfriend’s time in school they had that, unless she went to an international school.

Thank you

So Myil, why do you think sinhalese around this country try to desperately to get their kids to learn in english.

and myil, the fact that there are no Dutch or Portuguese medium schools in SL doesn’t mean those cultures are somehow less legitimate, and the loss of those cultures less significant. It seems to me that you, just like the sinhalese, marginalize cultures.

“The fact that you are nit picking on spelling mistakes shows you are lacking in substance.
I didn’t know a spelling mistake was considered racist? But in the book of fiction writers, any things possible.”

I didn’t say your misspelling was racist; I said that your obnoxious question about Indi’s GF was bigoted. However, to make mistakes about someone’s name or ethnicity shows a lack of interest, and a lack of respect. You know, “Chinese, Japanese, what’s the difference?” “Malay, Moor, who cares? They’re all Muslims.” Right, Myil? There’s a Tamil on GV who thinks his culture is superior to other minorities. This self-absorption in your own problems, and a lack of empathy for other minorities is what ensured that the other minorities didn’t show any support for your fight.

“Anyway the main point is Thamils don’t feel free to express their identity. It is looked with suspicion. Hence Thamils who mix with other ethnicities generally tend to adopt the other ethnicity’s identity. Which probably is what happened with you. Did you study in the Thamil medium? probably not. If not why? The same happened with the Jews in Europe who adopted european names and changed their religion in order to cover their jewishness to get ahead in life. Because being Jewish was considered a liability.”

I studied in Sinhalese because I lived in the south. If I grew up in Jaffna (which I nearly did), I would have studied in Tamil. But what I should have been able to do was study in English. But I couldn’t, because the Sinhalese and Tamils were too interested in fighting over language to care about the smaller minorities. And when the Tamils had the chance to show the world that they were actually different to the Sinhalese, what did they do? Tey turned on the Muslims — an even smaller minority — and chased them out of the north.

Yes, Tamils are looked on with suspicion by the Sinhalese, and when I used to visit the east regularly, I too was looked on with suspicion by the Tamils. That’s the cost of conflict.

“Burghers (hope I got the spelling right?) generally put their children in the sinhala medium and not Thamil because they know life would be easier in the majority’s medium rather than a vilified minority’s. Even some Burghers from Batticaloa have put their children in sinhala mediums. They want the best for their children and they know in a country like Sri Lanka,which is racist and not totally free, it is best to assimilate with those in power to have a better chance at life.”

What’s wrong with that? Who should we have tried to assimilate with — the Tamils? We saw what you did to the Tamil-speaking Muslims in the north. The Tamils are just as racist as the Sinhalese. Yes, Burghers generally put their children into the Sinhalese medium because most Burghers generally live in Sinhalese-majority areas. So do the Moors and Malays. I’m sure SOME Batti Burghers educated their kids in Sinhalese, but most did it in Tamil.

“In such a culture minorities feel inferior to express their identity. Hence my question?”

How do you even know if she identifies with that part of her heritage? I know lots of Tamils who don’t even speak Tamil. Do you consider them less Tamil? Do you think that is because they feel inferior? Don’t wipe your bleeding sore on everyone around you, Myil. You’re like Ali G being pulled over by an American cop and asking “Is it ‘cos I is Black?”

“Anyway Indi shouldn’t use his girlfriends Thamil/Burgher heritage to show that he values multiculturalism.”

I don’t think he did. I think he was using that to make a point about the multiculturalism of Colombo.

“I’d like to know if Indi were to marry and have a child in what medium he would put that child? Given, of course, he married or had a child with his current girlfriend.”

Who cares? If he had brains, he’d educate the kid in English. The reason you feel unable to express your Tamilness is because you’ve got such an obnoxious brand of it. I’m not surprised you feel people are suspicious of you!

Well….

While tamil nadu state has a far more exclusive identity than SL. It’s not something we should ever try to emulate. National identities should be about things that are representative of everyone in that country. not bunch of things that represent various different people in the country.

Well, what I’ve said is true for most if not all Western democracies that claim to be “multicultural.”

Have you seen the old Ceylon flag, of pre-independence?

Have a look at it here:

http://ivan_corea.tripod.com/id30.html

I dont recall having seen this before, Jack. I have no real objection to an elephant and a stupa on our national flag. But I am rather fond of the stylised lion motif. I feel sad that Tamils feel it’s something that excludes them. Even the Nayakkar kings used a lion symbol. I dont think Muslims and Burghers and other minorities care much about it either. Maybe we should take the sword away and give it a “pahana”
or something. The minute I mentioned the bullets, I remembered the sword, but kept quiet because I was talking to Heshan ; )

The country name Ceylon evokes images of a much nicer era, before all the strife, if that’s what you mean. Sri Lanka brings forth a different image altogether. Ceylon is derived from Sihala apparently, more references to the lion. Lanka is the name that appears in Ramayana.

@ Jack,

Well, the old Ceylon flag would obviously not work, since it’s in the foreground of a Union Jack. Like I said, my name gripe is that the flag looks ugly (largely because of the combination of colors). And, a flag should try to convey a neutral message – a lion holding a sword is anything but discreet.

*main gripe

Couldn’t open the link. If you’re referring to the colonial Union Jack flag, that’s both a design and a political disaster.

If it makes anyone feel any better, the lion on the current flag was the symbol of a Telugu king from Madurai. Sri Vikrama Rajasinha. I’d always thought he was Tamil, but the Wiki says Telugu. Hence the flag isn’t inherently Sinhala.

Also, the lion itself (Sinha Bahu’s dad) is Indian. So…

Yes, Sri Wickrema was the last of the four kings of the Nayakkar dynasty.

My gripe is not that the Lion represents a particular community. I’m arguing purely on aesthetic grounds – forget the meaning of the flag; it looks plain ugly. If you were to wear clothes with that kind of color contrast, you’d be a walking eyesore.

On another note, I wouldn’t mind a flag that had Sinhala letters on it; just remove the Lion and make sure the colors match.

I wonder which village genius came up with the Lion flag?