Stop Being Terrorized

If it’s worth fighting for, it’s worth thinking for.


In a stunning turn of events, the Government has taken responsibility and apologized for deporting the 300+ Tamil citizens from Colombo. Given the broad local and global uproar, it was inevitable. They woke Prime Minister Ratnasiri up to apologize and say that the incident would never be repeated. That, in itself, is a testament to how far the country has come since 1983. The fact that the incident occurred at all is a testament to how far Mahinda could take us back. Sri Lanka is fundamentally different from the LTTE in that we do have systems and freedoms to enable a moral or at least decent state. The danger is that the spectre of the LTTE causes us to lower our own moral standards, until being better than terrorists is all we aspire to. It is not, and it should not be. Sri Lanka is better than that. We must be a place where any Sri Lankan can move and speak and live, and where people live under laws. We should never be a feudal Rajapakse estate, willing to give up our freedoms to the threat of terror. The LTTE are terrorists, but we have to face that terror and not forget how we are. Deporting Tamils is easy, temporary, and wrong. Living together is difficult, long-term, and right. We need to have the courage to do the right thing.

The problem with terrorism is that it literally terrorized people. It changes you, it changes your behavior, and that is intentional. The LTTE was nothing before they killed 13 soldiers in 1983. Yet, after the frenzy of communal violence that spread, they blossomed. They fed on that hatred, that division and they grew. They now number over 10,000 and have ruptured this nation. Why are we still feeding them?

People argue that we must not point out the flaws of our government because the LTTE is so much worse. That is the worst corruption of all. They are saying that we must now take our moral standards from terrorists. That we should take them as an example, and only reach to be “better” than the LTTE. I refuse to believe this. Sri Lanka is so much better than the LTTE. That it is why it is my duty to criticize, protest, and improve this nation – because it is the very unruly democracy that makes us better. Those who would sacrifice liberty for freedom deserve neither, and those who posit the LTTE as a moral reference are quite simply terrorized.

They are terrorized by LTTE bombs and mutilations and ethnic cleansing into anger, and anger makes for incoherent reactions. People ask for quick fixes – bombs, arrests, deportations, and at worst riots. Quick fixes which only fuel the LTTE fire. People are too much in shock to make the hard decision of peace, so they react with instinct defense of the government and whatever excesses it cares to pursue. That is why every critic must be branded as a ‘kotiya’ or LTTE supporter – because they are terrorized into seeing the world like that. The LTTE has not won their hearts and minds, but it has won their fear. Works just as well.

As Fareed Zakaria said in Newsweek:

We will never be able to prevent a small group of misfits from planning some terrible act of terror. No matter how far-seeing and competent our intelligence and law-enforcement officials, people will always be able to slip through the cracks in a large, open and diverse country… If one day bombs do go off, we must ensure that they cause as little disruption—economic, social, political—as possible. This would deprive the terrorist of his main objective. If we are not terrorized, then in a crucial sense we have defeated terrorism.

At some point we have to stop being terrorized. We have to stop living in fear. We have to live in hope, and we have to return to our Constitution. We need to be and demand a moral, democratic state. If we’re fighting for freedom we have to live it. Mahinda cannot shut down newspapers without protest. His brother cannot threaten editors. They cannot use the immoral Karuna force as a proxy terrorist army. We cannot condone abductions in our capital. We have to stand up and make the sacrifice it takes to be free. We have to give up our fear.

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76 Comments »

RD
2007-06-11 19:22:55

“They woke Prime Minister Ratnasiri up to apologize and say that the incident would never be reported.” – One of the best Freudian slips ever!

 
Diyasena
2007-06-11 19:40:15

The Rajapaksas make the speeches to take credit for the positives and send poor befuddled Ratnasiri to take the heat for the screw-ups. This is not bad politics, but it helps to find a scapegoat who has a clue. According to LBO: “They (the police) asked people whether they want to go back to their village or not only after bussing them (256 kilometres, 160 miles) to Vavuniya,” Wickremanayake said.

So according to Mr Clueless Scapegoat, it would have been okay if a whole bunch of armed cops knock on your door in the middle of the and ask you whether you want to go back to your village right then and there; what is wrong is if they ask you after taking you 256 kilometers.

We can now expect S’nut, Ratnasiri’s web counterpart, to praise the generosity of the government in providing free transport for people wishing to go to their villages.

 
2007-06-11 21:33:02

i hope they wake someone about the power crisis!

 
Diyasena
2007-06-11 21:36:26

Oh, I forgot. If we had a decent legal system, old Clueless would not be in Parliament, let alone saying stupid things as Prime Minister.

In the 2004 General Election, his name was not on any list submitted by the UPFA. The story was that his son was on the list in Kalutara so he wasn’t (one family, unless it’s the Bandaranaikes and Rajapaksas, gets only one snout in the trough under UPFA rules). They neglected to put him on the national list too.

Chandrika missed having an old man to fall asleep at meetings and say weird stuff at public meetings, so she got Janadasa Pieris (who is not stupid, only servile) to resign and appointed Clueless to the vacancy and then appointed him to Cabinet in charge of a nothing Ministry; MR wanted a placeholder until Namal grows up or Gota gets elected, so Clueless became PM. Of course this same technique was not allowed after the CMC election, but the people who wanted to use it were not part of the ruling party.

If you think things are bad now think how bad they will be with Clueless in the Big Chair. Such things will not happen, you say? Remember DB Wijetunge, another clueless old man who was kept around as a placeholder?

 
2007-06-11 22:16:58

Once we have a war there is only one thing to do. It must be won. For defeat brings worse things than any that can ever happen in war.
Ernest Hemmingway

I like this post indi……….I agree with what you want to say

 
T
2007-06-11 22:47:42

thats a really great post. what really irks me is that whenever we criticize the govt., specially with regards to something as disgraceful as their latest action, we are accused of being unpatriotic and sympathetic to the LTTE. if we shouldn’t hold our own govt accountable for its actions, who should? and aren’t we morally and legally bound to take the high road and not stoop to the level of terrorists?

 
2007-06-12 06:07:47

you are right, we shouldn’t take moral standards from terrorists.

it is however inconsistent to say that and then advocate peace with ltte.
if someppl think that ltte is so evil and terrorist as to make even condemnation futile and superfluous they should advocate defeating it( even using legitimate military power ). they certainly should not advocate peace with a group that is beyond the reach of reason, as they claim it is. peace with an unreformed armed ltte is not sustainable and will bring only oppression to those under it. it will make permanent the ethnic cleansing carried out by ltte and violate rights of millions. ppl who think like that should push the government to defeat ltte using all legitimate methods available to it.

that is what is missing in some of the most vocal ppl who condemned the eviction incident. instead of doing the things pointed out in previous para they have done the exact opposite, and advocate appeasement of terrorists in return for peace.some of them going so far as to term those who advocate defeat of ltte ( using force if needs be ) as extremist . this is esp true of those who made the most exaggerated totally unjustified claims about ethnic cleansing or that this was more than a security measure (however stupid or not on the part of the police)

you talk of hard decision for peace, to a person who considers ltte as terrorist and beyond the pale of even condemnation there shouldn’t be peace with ltte.

this inconsistency is what makes such exaggerated condemnations of some bloggers troubling and makes them stink of hypocrisy.

government has apologized for this, but would the ppl who made false exaggerated claims do likewise ?
-

for those who still persist in calling this a form of ethnic cleansing i would point out that hundreds of thousands of tamils live in colombo, that 15000+ live in lodges in colombo, and that 5000 lived in the lodges examined on that day. so the selection was not on race. main criteria were lack of identification and a reason to stay. as long as those were accepted by courts restriction of freedom of movement is not anything more than any other restriction of freedom of movement and other curtailments of rights that ppl here and every where are subjected to under all laws.

David Blacker
2007-06-12 09:36:58

” so the selection was not on race. main criteria were lack of identification and a reason to stay.”

Really? Were there any Sinhalese, Muslims, or Burghers among the evicted? There are plenty of Sinhalese in Colombo who lack ID and have no reason to stay (and even if you claim the latter as a criteria for expulsion, many of the evicted could prove that they were in Colombo to be married, get visas, etc, but were expelled anyway). Has even a single one of these unemployed and unidentifiable Sinhalese been sent back to their villages? The answer is no. So the first criteria in selecting who was to be evicted was ethnicity.

No, it wasn’t ethnic cleansing, because ethnic cleansing would mean to remove a certain ethnic group completely from an area (or at least attempt it). However, the act of eviction was based on ethnicity and is therfore racism. It’s also lazy, inefficient, immoral, and illegal.

2007-06-12 19:29:16

David Blacker says…..”No, it wasn’t ethnic cleansing, because ethnic cleansing would mean to remove a certain ethnic group completely from an area”

A Quote from : Indi’s “Shame”
One of the most damning abuses of the LTTE was their ethnic cleansing. Rounding up Muslims and giving them 24 hours to leave, etc. Now Sri Lanka is in the same boat.

same boat = Ethnic cleansing ?

A quote from a david Blacker’s comment in the same post

//If the GoSL wants to avoid criticism and the resultant sanctions it should staart aacting like a government of the people and not the Nazi party.\\

Evicting 376 people from Colombo lodges was “acting like” Nazi party? Nazi Party = Ethnic cleansing?!

We report! You decide!

I think 2007 Blogger award for “Exaggeration & manipulation” should go to David Blacker and Indi. We should add a new title too. “Mastering Contradictory Statements”

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David Blacker
2007-06-13 10:13:46

VIC, as usual, your ability with a keyboard far surpasses your analytical capability. Your two examples are just mistaken logic, I guess. You’ve quoted something I’ve said in this thread, and then compared it to something Indi said in another thread, and then somehow deduced that since I’ve contradicted Indi, that there’s a problem? Indi claimed it was ethnic cleansing, not I.

In my “Nazi party” quote I’ve compared the GoSL to the Nazi party. You yourself have then deduced that Nazi party = ethnic cleansing. I’m sorrry, VIC, but if you want to jump to conclusions using faulty analysis, you’re just making yourself look like a bigger idiot than you already have.

But keep blogging. Youe site is regularly used as an example of Sinhalese racism and stupidity. Thank you for your effort in the war against the LTTE.

2007-06-13 10:31:49

Oh realy Mr. Blacker? :-) You didn’t had anything in your mind about ethnic cleansing when you simulate GOSL to Nazi Party?

Ok, ok, We are just infants! Api Babala!

Oh! thanks for letting me know my site is regularly used as an example of Sinhalese racism and stupidity by LTTE henchmen. I didn’t know that before.

But, moderate people know who are racists and who are not. People (including) who only shout about human rights of “ethnic Tamils” are not racists as per your logic. But people who talk about sorrow of all Sri Lankans, regardless of their ethnicity are racists!

I invite you to sit for next election from TNA. (Don’t worry, they’ll take any one in, who kiss Prabha’s ass, even if you are not a Tamil) Which electorate you want? Dehiwala?

Mr. David “contradictory” Blacker

 
2007-06-13 10:35:01

People (including you) who only shout about human rights of “ethnic Tamils” are not racists as per your logic. But people who talk about sorrow of all Sri Lankans, regardless of their ethnicity are racists!

 
2007-06-13 10:52:19

I never claimed it was ethnic cleansing. I said we were in the ‘same boat’ as the LTTE, which given normal English doesn’t mean equivalent at all. ‘In the same boat’ means in the same general region – that region being moving people moving around based on their race. I’ve been pretty scrupulous about referring to the event as ‘deportation’ or ‘eviction’.

As to the other points, I get a lot of emotion but not a lot of points per se. Denial is not patriotism, it’s actually the opposite.

 
2007-06-13 12:31:03

read your original statement carefully.

“One of the most damning abuses of the LTTE was their ethnic cleansing. Rounding up Muslims and giving them 24 hours to leave, etc. Now Sri Lanka is in the same boat.”

I don’t question your English language skills, because it’s your first language. Of course now you can define “in the same boat” in as many different meanings as you can.

 
David Blacker
2007-06-13 13:37:02

“You didn’t had anything in your mind about ethnic cleansing when you simulate GOSL to Nazi Party?”

So now you’re adding mind-reading to your resume as well? :)

“Oh! thanks for letting me know my site is regularly used as an example of Sinhalese racism and stupidity by LTTE henchmen.”

Did I say the LTTE visit your site? Your reading skills are detioraa\ting VIC. Probably you’re concentrating too much on mind-reading. Maybe you should try wiping the bullshit out of your eyes first.

“But people who talk about sorrow of all Sri Lankans, regardless of their ethnicity are racists!’

I invite you to point out a single instance where I’ve called someone who expresses sorrow for all Sri Lankans a racist.

“I invite you to sit for next election from TNA”

You don’t sit for elections, idiot, you stand for election. You sit for exams. Maybe if you had done the latter you’d be a bit smarter than you are now.

 
2007-06-13 14:03:14

The saga of the cat who shit on the rock continues….. :-)

 
2007-06-13 14:14:26

BTW, thanks for pointing out the grammatical errors. When people come short of facts to argue with, they turn into such immaterial things, where they are strong at. :-)

Unfortunately, I’m Sri Lankan, and English is only my second language. I do lot of mistakes in foreign languages. You might as well. I mean, when using Sinhala or Tamil?

 
2007-06-13 14:14:53

BTW, thanks for pointing out the grammatical errors. When people come short of facts to argue with, they turn into such immaterial things, where they are strong at. :-)

Unfortunately, (for you) I’m Sri Lankan, and English is only my second language. I do lot of mistakes in foreign languages. You might as well. I mean, when using Sinhala or Tamil?

 
David Blacker
2007-06-13 14:29:37

“BTW, thanks for pointing out the grammatical errors”

It’s not a grammatical error, Vic. It’s plain ignorance.

“Unfortunately, (for you) I’m Sri Lankan,”

Why would it be unfortunate for me? Rather, it’s unfortunate for Sri Lanka.

“and English is only my second language.”

That IS unfortunate for you. My sympathies for one more victim of the Sinhala-Only policy. I, too, am a Sri Lankan, and English is my first language.

“I do lot of mistakes in foreign languages. You might as well. I mean, when using Sinhala or Tamil?”

Then you should stay away from foreign languages and improve your grasp of local languages (Sinhalese, Tamil & English). And no, I rarely have problems with Sinhalese because I was educated in it throughout my schooling and use it every day, though I admit my Tamil’s not very good, mostly because I never have to use it.

“The saga of the cat who shit on the rock continues….. ”

Followed closely by the saga of the Voice that spouts bullshit :)

 
Lizard
2007-06-16 17:21:09

And we care about one more pissed off armchair-surfer why?

I lost the slightest bit of respect I may have had for you when you claimed that you are a Sri Lankan and English is your first language. Whether you’re good at speaking Sinhala or not is immaterial. It means you haven’t understood fully the concept of nationalism, and keep being a slave to the West, Western thought, and Western culture, even though that’s partly what has led us to the country’s present state.

 
2007-06-16 21:32:59

We need English. It’s literally the link language between Sinhala and Tamil. No need to burn bridges here. To quote the Sri Lankan Constitution:

The Official Language of Sri Lanka shall be Sinhala.

4[(2) Tamil shall also be an official language.

(3) English shall be the link language.

 
David Blacker
2007-06-18 17:52:00

Lizzy, I AM Sri Lankan and English IS my first language. If you don’t like it, have a cry. What are you gonna do, deport me to England?

 
 
 
 
 
rohan
2007-06-12 06:37:06

Let me qoute this from another blog:

The common Sinhalese, Tamils etc are all good people. The problem in Sri Lanka starts from the fake leaders who are malayalee like Mahina, CBK,SWRD and Tamil mudali chetty from India like Ranil, JWRD. Mahinda hides his Christian name Percy. Solomon Wesley Ridgeway Dias is no Sinhala name who introduced the Sinhala only act.

The fake leaders wanted power. They and their forefathers were Christians so that they would benefit. Why did SWRD not give away his 1200 hectares of estate before he joined politics. How did such wealth come to them.

The Tamils Hindus worked hard and they did use the advantage they got from English education to rise up the ladder. However English is not the mother tongue of the Tamils. Hence when they took it up and succeeded, don’t blame them. The fake Sinhalese leaders who prostituted themselves could not bear this and use the ignorance of the Sinhalese masses to benefit and they are still looting Sri Lanka.

In Malaysia, before the British left, most Jaffna Tamils used to dominate the government service. Top officials to the kings were also Jaffna Tamils. Fake Malays who were Indian Muslim, Indonesian like Bugis lied and brought Malay as the official language. The Chinese who were businessmen did not have a good grasp of English during colonial times. However when Malay was adopted as the official language, they started do better then the Malays in Malay. This forced the government to have 2 grading curves for Malays and Non-Malays and they introduced standardization. Malaysia have a 1983 style riot in 1969 between the Malays and Chinese.

The removal of Jaffna Tamils who were mostly government servants resulted in them moving to the private sector. This resulted in some becoming businessmen. The richest person in Malaysia and the builder of the tallest building in the world at one time is Ananda Krishnan. He is the son of Jaffna Tamils. It’s called PETRONAS Towers because the Malay government took a share as they did not want a significant icon like that to be having a Non-Malay name. Today Ananda Krishnan is buying Sri Lankan Telecoms and Power.

In Singapore Tamil is one of the Official Languages. So Tamil is in all forms like Malay, Chinese and English. When Singapore’s first Prime Minister visited Sri Lanka, he wanted Singapore to be like Sri Lanka. 25 years later Jayewardene wanted Sri Lanka to be like Singapore. This shows the decline.

The Jaffna Tamils dominated the government and government services in Singapore. Rajaretnam was the country first Foreign minister and the PM’s right hand man. After the first riots between the Chinese and Malays, he wrote a pledge. It reads as

We the citizens of Singapore,
Pledge ourselves as one united people,
Regardless of Race, Language or Religion,
To build a democratic society,
Based on Justice and Equality,
So as to achieve peace prosperity and Happiness.

All students in Singapore need to recite this everyday. He was also responsible for bringing Prima which is the sole supplier of Flour in Sri Lanka today.

JYM Plllai is the man behind Singapore Airline, the number one in the world. Concurrently he was the head of the Development Bank of Singapore (one of Asia’s largest today). Now he is the chairman of Singapore Stock Exchange which is aiming to be Asia’s best.

Dr Vijayretnam is the man behind Singapore Airport and Seaport which both were at many times number 1 in the world.

SS Retnam who studied in Hartley and whose grandfather set up the Hindu college was the first to do Sex change and Test tube baby procedures in Asia.

The first Acting commissioner of police, High commissioners to Malaysia and Britain, Speaker of House, Election Commissioner, Top lawyers, Judges, Doctors, Engineers and many others were Jaffna Tamils. The first opposition MP after independence was a Jaffna Tamil. His son today is the youngest president of the law society (a society dominated by Chinese lawyers today and the post is by elections)

The Chinese who were also not fluent in English before independence, picked it up and hold most of the senior post. However Jaffna Tamils due to their hard work still hold top positions like the present prime ministers right hand man Tharman is a Jaffna Tamil. He acts on behalf of the PM as the defacto central banker.

Intelligence has nothing to do with race. It has all to do with hard work. The Chinese is Singapore have no special mark scheme to go into University or racial Quotas. The fields once dominated by Jaffna Tamils and other Indians today are held by Chinese. They came up because of working hard. That’s how you come up in life. That’s how Japan recovered after the First World War and how Singapore overtook Sri Lanka.

Jey
2007-06-12 21:09:20

Cool.

For your info:

I have also heard that on one occasion during World War one, the British approached wealthy Tamils of Jaffna origin in Malaysia for funds to support the construction of WW1 planes. A certain model of fighter plane was named after the city.

 
Sie.Kathieravelu
2007-06-30 18:11:58

A very good comment. Its the faked leaders who ruined the country and continue to do. Let us find a way of removing them from power. Once the faked leaders are removed there will be peace in the country and evertone will prosper and be happy. These faked leaders are misguiding the public.

We can only pray to the Almighty GOD in all earnestness to have mercy on our country and do something to make us happy.

 
 
2007-06-12 19:17:28

//Deporting Tamils is easy, temporary, and wrong. Living together is difficult, long-term, and right. \\

Hmmm…. Usual “Indi Chinthanaya”

deportting those 376 people back to their home towns was wrong, because it was forcebly done by police. But, how can you think, that it’s the opposite of “living together”. Your idea is correct, if GOSL deported all 117,000 Tamils living in Colombo. You are really good at this now a days Indi. EXAGGERATION

You may not know, (Because you were not in this country during more harder times) even after 1983 Sinhalese and Tamils are “living together” peacefully in Colombo. Some people want 1983 riots to be happened again. All these arousals are for that. making a non exsisting ethnic conflict among Colombo Sinhalese and Tamils.

Living together is not difficult. Because We already live together.

comment
2007-06-13 13:55:25

The other thing is, VOC, you need to step back and get some perspective.

If you speak to even Tamil people living in colombo before and during 1983, they can attest to the fact they were taken aback by how things went horribly wrong in just a few days. There were no signs to these ordinary civilians that this was going to happen. The economy was booming, tourism was booming and they were living peacefully side by side with the sinhalese. The sinhalese were also surprised. In fact I think things might even have been more peaceful in Colombo than now, because the LTTE didn’t even come past Elephant pass. So the Sinhalese had even less cause to hate the Tamils or be afraid of them. Yet 1983 happened.

The incident in Pettah may not be ethnic cleansing, but you need to accept the fact that if people didn’t protest against it it is likely to have got worse.

The Holocaust didn’t happen overnight. As soon as hitler was elected into power, he didn’t say o.k. tomorrow we are going to build a concentration camp and kill all the jews. It happened when people started believing the Nazi parties rhetoric and scape goating of the Jews and anyone else who they felt didn’t fit their “chinthanaya”.

We are lucky to live in this centuary. We have documented evidence of the past and can learn from the past. The Germans didn’t. Those sinhalse living in Colombo, in 1983 didn’t. So you are fortunate enough to have all this access to the internet, international media etc. to learn about the past and try and make sure it is not repeated.

I think thats what people like Indi were trying to do. I am sure thats what you would want too. You are lucky you still have some form of democracy and can raise your voices. Instead of atacking each other, you need to look at what is happening in the country and make sure the elected leaders of the country do the right thing for the future of this country.

Looking at Indi’s post at least, he hasn’t named you or any other private individual. He is focussing on the government, so I don’t know why you have turned to posting personal accusations against individuals in your blog.

2007-06-13 14:09:40

I don’t dis agree with most of your comment, but the last part I think youexpect an answer from me.
//I don’t know why you have turned to posting personal accusations against individuals in your blog.\\

Pointing out deceitful nature of some individuals statements/behaviour is wrong? You take it as personal accusations?

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comment
2007-06-13 14:15:31

To be honest, I think there are bigger issues at stake, and those issues get drowned out when one picks on every little faux pax made by private individuals. Can’t we rise above that?

 
 
Sie.Kathieravelu
2007-06-30 18:24:11

Correct. Lets do something to improve on the present form of democracy.Let us make sure that the elected faked leaders of the country do the right thing for the future of this country. Is it not asking too much from a set of fake leaders. Right now our destiny is in their hands. So we have no alternative but to appease them.

Let GOD Almighty gives us ONE Statesman/Stateswoman

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comment
2007-06-13 13:56:43

The other thing is, VOC, you need to step back and get some perspective.

If you speak to even Tamil people living in colombo before and during 1983, they can attest to the fact they were taken aback by how things went horribly wrong in just a few days. There were no signs to these ordinary civilians that this was going to happen. The economy was booming, tourism was booming and they were living peacefully side by side with the sinhalese. The sinhalese were also surprised. In fact I think things might even have been more peaceful in Colombo than now, because the LTTE didn’t even come past Elephant pass. So the Sinhalese had even less cause to hate the Tamils or be afraid of them. Yet 1983 happened.

The incident in Pettah may not be ethnic cleansing, but you need to accept the fact that if people didn’t protest against it it is likely to have got worse.

The Holocaust didn’t happen overnight. As soon as hitler was elected into power, he didn’t say o.k. tomorrow we are going to build a concentration camp and kill all the jews. It happened when people started believing the Nazi parties rhetoric and scape goating of the Jews and anyone else who they felt didn’t fit their “chinthanaya”.

We are lucky to live in this centuary. We have documented evidence of the past and can learn from the past. The Germans didn’t. Those sinhalse living in Colombo, in 1983 didn’t. So you are fortunate enough to have all this access to the internet, international media etc. to learn about the past and try and make sure it is not repeated.

I think thats what people like Indi were trying to do. I am sure thats what you would want too. You are lucky you still have some form of democracy and can raise your voices. Instead of atacking each other, you need to look at what is happening in the country and make sure the elected leaders of the country do the right thing for the future of this country. It is a mark of true patriotism when you expect a higher standard from your own government than anyone else’s.

Looking at Indi’s post at least, he hasn’t named you or any other private individual. He is focussing on the government, so I don’t know why you have turned to posting personal accusations against private individuals in your blog.

comment
2007-06-13 14:40:37

To be honest, I think there are bigger issues at stake, and those issues get drowned out when one picks on every little faux pax made by private individuals. Can’t we rise above that?

Instead of atacking each other, you need to look at what is happening in the country and make sure the elected leaders of the country do the right thing for the future of this country. It is a mark of true patriotism when you expect a higher standard from your own government than anyone.

Yes I agree, D. B. you are being unconstructive at this point!

(am repeating some points because had problems posting comments earlier)

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Sie.Kathieravelu
2007-06-30 18:36:52

We will have rise above our selfishness and greediness if we are to end the turmoil in this country and push the country forward to such an extent that no country will dare to compete with our country in upholding human diginity and values.

Speeches creating hatred and animosity should be banned. Not one religion preached hatred or animosity. As of today our country is not secular and have a Ministry for religious affairs but none take note of anti-religious preachings. A pity.

If the so-called religious leaders practise what they preach or what they have been taught to preach our country will not be in state it is today.

Religious leaders please take note. Over to you .

 
 
 
Sie.Kathieravelu
2007-07-01 13:40:08

The ordinary people, to whatever group they are said to belong, want to LIVE IN PEACE AND HARMONY. It is those people who want to control the ordinary people want to divide the people by various lines for their own benefit. Some get carried without being aware of the hidden agenda of these self appointed controllers who are bent on making a quick buck on the side. That is the trouble. Lets do something to get rid of these self appointed fake leaders. So instead of wasting our time commenting on the acts of these fake leaders let us do something constructive for positive peace in this country. Is it asking too much. Come let us jointly remake this country to its glorious past.

 
 
Lizard
2007-06-13 00:54:50

What’s popular is not always what’s right. You fail to understand that, and so, tend to make some sort of flagrant display of your so-called ‘morality’ to make yourself feel better. I agree with some of what you have to say, but I also agree more with Voice of Colombo.

PS- I suggest you and Mr. Blacker read up a bit more about Ethnic Cleansing and the Nazi party, please. And I mean reading beyond the joke that is Wikipedia (I certainly hope it isn’t one of your sources on your general ‘ideas’.)

David Blacker
2007-06-13 10:19:43

Lizard, I’ve never claimed that what just happened was ethnic cleansing. I’ve also lived in Germany (so I think I’ve a fair bit of knowledge on the Nazis) and been to Eastern Europe (where they know all about ethnic cleansing). So I suggest you first actually read through the threads you’re commenting about before stumbling over your tongue on your way to VIC’s & Snut’s butts :)

2007-06-13 10:46:27

There’s an old story in Sri Lankan villages about a cat who shit on a rock. Cat try to cover it’s shit, and get more and more dirty.

Dvaid Blackers “ethnic cleansing” accusation to GOSL was like a piece of “shit on a rock”. It’s in public domain! Now you can’t cover it, no matter how much you scratch it.

I proposed you to join TNA earlier. But, this time I think you are better suited with JVP. They are the bunch of cats always shit on rocks.

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comment
2007-06-13 12:53:17

Voice in Colombo

I would like to suggest that you be more constructive in the way you approach this issue. Personally attacking everyone who you disagree with is actually going to make people tune out to what you have to say.

What are you trying to achieve here?

 
David Blacker
2007-06-13 14:41:27

“Dvaid Blackers “ethnic cleansing” accusation to GOSL was like a piece of “shit on a rock””

Vic, repeating a lie won’t make it a truth. I invite you to point out where I’ve referred to the illegal, immoral, and downright stupid move of the GoSL to evict citizens of this country from Colombo as ethnic cleansing. I suggest you put up the evidence, or shut up.

I suspect that the reason for your personal attacks on Indi & myself is because the action you defended so moronically all over the blogosphere has just been admitted as a mistake by the PM and apologised for. I suggest you apologise for being an idiot as well, instead of talking about cat shit now that you’ve finished with the bullshit :)

 
 
 
 
foliage
2007-06-13 04:23:27

Just saw this gem: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6745553.stm

Absolutely hilarious. I don’t see how any third party viewing the situation could not conclude that the sri lankan government was incompetent, hilariously paranoid and generally not quite the democratically elected legitimate entity that makes it easy to view the tigers as the sole villain in this conflict.

The silver lining of all of this is the sri lankan government is brought to ridicule and its flaws are exposed in comical fashion. Too many view this conflict as a legitimate state fighting a ruthless terrorist group. The reality of two corrupt, ruthless entities is in better focus now.

Sie.Kathieravelu
2007-07-01 13:50:20

Let us forget the fighters. Both of them are fighting on our behalf to keep us on tension for ever. Let us make a move to stop it. “Peace is in our hands”. Let us put forward a solution that will keep away the fake leaders.

 
 
2007-06-13 14:22:13

Comment,

//Voice in Colombo

I would like to suggest that you be more constructive in the way you approach this issue. Personally attacking everyone who you disagree with is actually going to make people tune out to what you have to say.//

“Personally everyone who you disagree” is a good explanation about David Blacker’s perspectives. I think you should read his “history of comments” to learn that.

 
comment
2007-06-13 14:43:10

To be honest, I think there are bigger issues at stake, and those issues get drowned out when one picks on every little faux pax made by private individuals. Can’t we rise above that?

Instead of atacking each other, you need to look at what is happening in the country and make sure the elected leaders of the country do the right thing for the future of this country. It is a mark of true patriotism when you expect a higher standard from your own government than anyone.

Yes I agree, D. B. you are being unconstructive at this point!

(am reposting for clarity not sure what is happening)

 
2007-06-13 15:27:41

Uhhhhh, calm people, calm. Blacker, your personal attacks don’t raise the level of discourse. If you can hold it in that’d be appreciate it.

VIC, you are very quick to brand people that disagree with you as ‘LTTE Supporters’, which also lowers the level of discourse. It is possible to disagree and not support the LTTE.

David Blacker
2007-06-13 16:02:52

Well, none of my original comments were addressed to VIC. I only responded to his personal attacks on me, some of which our related to other blogs. I’m perfectly happy to keep the attacks to the subject and not the person, but I dislike it when lies and misquotes are attributed to me (especially since I post under my own name). Maybe you should nip it in the bud at the onset and not after people try to defend themselves from personal attack.

Nick
2007-06-16 08:48:47

Pretty funny how you make a big fuss about “personal attacks” when you do just that all the time, and have done so since you started posting around the Kottu blogosphere. You lie yourself and misquote others people to suit your agenda, so why are you pointing fingers at others? To top it all off you’re a bigoted racist.

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David Blacker
2007-06-18 17:47:46

I have never attacked anyone personally (since most bloggers don’t use their real names, how can it be personal?) until those people got personal with me. I don’t believe in turning the other cheek so I give as good as I get. Neither do I whine and complain about it. I challlenge you to point out where I’ve lied or misquoted. The reason I said the above was because Indi brought it up. So run along and play with yourself for awhile, Nicky ;)

 
 
 
 
2007-06-13 15:49:36

Indi/Comment. Agreed, and understood! No arguements.

FYI. It’s possible to disagree, oppose LTTE, and not being Racists too. So, every one should be warned and adviced before “quick to brand people” who disagree as racists.

 
tamilgirl
2007-06-13 18:26:35

indi baby,
it’s too late to say you’re sorry…
it’s not enough
the gosl is not the legitimate govt that you and others portray it to be…
and it has broken the social covenent with the tamil people…
we have reverted to our post-colonial status…
thanks for caring, but the soon the NE splits off the better
thanks

 
Rajiv
2007-06-14 10:48:51

Indi, Maybe too long but interesting.

THIS is the SL I knew and it brings back many many pleasant memories of Jaffna and elsewhere. Wish there were people with pride, like Sunder on both sides of the fence to sort out the current problems and return the country to glory days.

Mike

The Jaffna I knew
May 28, 2007 at 8:08 pm · ~ Commentary

By R Sundaralingam

I was in Colombo a few months ago for a wedding in the family. My wife and I were staying at Hotel Taj Samudra. The Tri-Series cricket matches that were scheduled at that time were a complete wash-out and that gave us all Taj residents of the day the opportunity to mingle with the cricket teams who were also billeted in the hotel.

There were a couple of traditional Jaffna Tamil Hindu weddings being held there and. I observed the new brides and grooms, all in their fresh wedding finery, catching up with the Sri Lankan cricket heroes and posing for keepsake photographs; their families scuttled for autographs and a general spirit of bonhomie and camaraderie pervaded the hotel lobby even while it was raining cats and dogs outside. Sanath Jayasuriya, Kumar Sangakara, Mahela Jayawardane were the most sought after for pictures.

Was this something from the past? I say this, because this personified the spirit of the erstwhile Sinhala-Tamil harmony of which I carry nostalgic memories, quite different from what prevails today.

[EDIT - link]

Jey
2007-06-14 11:19:39

Paradox?
The sooner Tamil Eelam is recognised by the South the sooner these relationships can be reformed (by the concerned or interested parties).

David Blacker
2007-06-14 17:11:14

OR… the sooner the LTTE gives up its dream of a separate state… etc.

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Jey
2007-06-17 04:02:51

Err…. not really Blacker. As the actions of the Tamil diaspora last week in Geneva and Canada, as well as those in the North and East over the last few years show, even if the LTTE did give up, it’s still the Tamil nation’s dream and the Tamil people won’t give up.

Remember our fore-farthers were at it peacefully since independence and it was partly their exasperation at the breaking of Sinhala-Tamil agreements that prompted Tamil youth to take up arms.

 
 
 
 
2007-06-17 04:38:40

And the Tamil youth is now 40 years old. If you are the modern youth, come back and rebuild this country – Eelam or Sri Lanka. The Tamil youth deserves better than to die in an unwinnable war (for either side). Come back, rebuild, negotiate, make peace.

Jey
2007-06-18 01:25:37

Certainly. Hopefully soon. Whatever happens we can’t let external money making interests let this conflict prolong and get twisted like the Palestinian one. There has to be acceptance and reconciliation at some point soon.

comment
2007-06-18 07:33:34

Agree.

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David Blacker
2007-06-18 17:42:05

And if there is to be acceptance and reconcilliation, the Tamils have to realise that neither is going to come as long as they blindly back the LTTE. The latter will trade peace for power every time.

comment
2007-06-18 18:34:31

oh go away! :)

By the way, heard there might be some new developments next week. Keep your ear to the ground. :)

 
Karikalan
2007-06-23 04:22:34

The Tamils backed leaders pursuing Gandhian methods to get the state reformed. The Tamils backed negotiations and signed countless number of pacts… all of this over many decades to no avail. As far as the Tamils are concerned the only proven method of getting the desired rights is waging the ongoing insurgency. The Tamils will never stop backing the LTTE until the Southern polity stop their ethnic bidding and present a viable solution. Sadly their ignorance and selfish greed so far has allowed the LTTE’s support amongst the Tamil masses to grow to its current popularity.

The LTTE isn’t trading peace for power rather than trading a federal solution not worth the many decades of war and thousands of casualties for a separate state.

It is up to the Sinhala polity to make significant concessions, otherwise the war will continue until either the LTTE is obliterated or a separate state is created. Even if the LTTE was to obliterated, Tamil nationalism would stay alive.

 
comment
2007-06-23 07:31:58

“The LTTE isn’t trading peace for power rather than trading a federal solution not worth the many decades of war and thousands of casualties for a separate state.”

confused

 
2007-06-24 19:57:36

“The LTTE isn’t trading peace for power rather than trading a federal solution not worth the many decades of war and thousands of casualties for a separate state. ”

A separate state that the Tamils can never have. The Sinhalese will never give it willingly, the LTTE cannot take it by force, the UN will not call for it while other offers are on the table, and India will not stand for it even if everyone else agreed. So are the Tamils willing to sacrifice many thousands more (for the ridiculous assertion that thousands already have been) on the altar of a dream that is not only unattainable, but unnecessary.

“It is up to the Sinhala polity to make significant concessions, otherwise the war will continue until either the LTTE is obliterated or a separate state is created. Even if the LTTE was to obliterated, Tamil nationalism would stay alive.”

It isn’t upto just the Sinhalese polity. The leadership of both sides must lead their people to a peaceful solution. The people are sheep, they will be led, but the leaders must believe in peace. The Sinhalese polity will not make significant concessions if the only alternative is continued war; for they have the least to lose from perpetual war. It is the Tamils who have the most to suffer. And since the LTTE cannot wrest a separate state from the GoSL, your other conclusion will leave the NE Tamils decimated (for a militarily victorious GoSL will not show much kindness to a defeated Tamil populace) and it will be many generations before the Tamils will even be able to raise their heads. Isn’t it time the Tamils (NE & Diaspora) woke up and smelled the napalm? Your leaders are leading you to your deaths. It’s not too late to change paths.

 
Karikalan
2007-06-25 02:03:59

“the UN will not call for it while other offers are on the table”

What other offers? Are you talking the proposals released in May??? You have to joking…

“A separate state that the Tamils can never have.”

I wouldn’t pass judgement so quickly.

“The Sinhalese polity will not make significant concessions if the only alternative is continued war; for they have the least to lose from perpetual war.”

How does the Tamil leadership know that if the LTTE is militarily defeated or disarmed that the state wouldn’t continue pursuing its colonization of Tamil areas? Which the Sinhala state is currently doing right in the middle of the undeclared war. How do the Tamils know that the SL won’t allow more riots similar to 1983 now that no military deterrent such as the LTTE exists? How do the Tamils know the Sinhala state will just resume the position it held in regards to the Tamils prior to Tamil militancy, that is total indifference to the rights of Tamils and the many other minorities? The ethnic problem predates Tamil militancy by many decades.

“Isn’t it time the Tamils (NE & Diaspora) woke up and smelled the napalm?”

You mean live a life wherein we are second class citizens at the mercy of chauvinist leaders engaged in ethnic bidding. Have you ever heard what some of these populist Sinhalese passed off and continue to pass off for campaign platforms?

Federalism does seem somewhat appealing but I doubt the Sinhalese masses would support it…

 
David Blacker
2007-06-25 10:02:59

“What other offers? Are you talking the proposals released in May??? You have to joking…”

No, I’m not talking about a specific offer, but as long as the offer of talks and the disawoving of a military solution is on the table, the UN is not going to call for a separate state (something that they have in any case never done before, except where constitutionally possible).

“I wouldn’t pass judgement so quickly.”

Believe me I’m not being quick in my judgement. I’ve come to this concusion after 25 years of war. I’ve already told you why it will not happen.

“How does the Tamil leadership know that if the LTTE is militarily defeated or disarmed that the state wouldn’t continue pursuing its colonization of Tamil areas?”

What Tamil leadership? The LTTE has declared that they are the reppresentatives of the NE Tamils, and unless the Tamils themselves say otherwise en masse, they will continue to hold that slot. As I said before, a militarily victorious GoSL may not be very concilliatory to the NE Tamils, and that is why the LTTE (if they have the best interests of the NE Tamils at heart) must negotiate while they still have some negotiating power. After they are defeated there will be no negotiating.

“Which the Sinhala state is currently doing right in the middle of the undeclared war.”

I’m afraid you are misinformed in this. Do you have any evidence of it?

“How do the Tamils know that the SL won’t allow more riots similar to 1983 now that no military deterrent such as the LTTE exists?”

The fact that there has been no ethnic riots of the scale of ’83 in the last twenty years is that proof. And before you say it’s because of the LTTE, let me tell you that it’s not. The LTTE cannot prevent another ’83, even if they wanted to; and quite the to the contrary they have done their best to spark fresh communal violence by intentionally attacking Sinhalese villages in the border areas and massacring entire communities, or committing attrocities like the Kebbettigollawa bus bombing or the bus bombings in the south earlier this year. The reason that there has been no repeat of ’83 is because successive SL govts since then have realised how counterproductive it was, and the Sinhalese themselves have understood just how wrong it was to do such a thing.

“How do the Tamils know the Sinhala state will just resume the position it held in regards to the Tamils prior to Tamil militancy, that is total indifference to the rights of Tamils and the many other minorities?”

That is why it is incumbent on the LTTE to negotiate for a federal system and while it still can.

“You mean live a life wherein we are second class citizens at the mercy of chauvinist leaders engaged in ethnic bidding. ”

Not at all. I would never suggest such a thing. What I’m suggesting is fedaralism and that the Tamils press the LTTE to start negotiating on that platform. I agree with the reasons that the Tamils took up arms (I myself am from a minority), and I understand that there was no choice since peaceful protests had failed. But since 25 years of war have also failed to produce peace & security for the NE Tamils, a new alternative must be found. Before it’s too late.

“Have you ever heard what some of these populist Sinhalese passed off and continue to pass off for campaign platforms?”

Of course, I live here in SL :)

“Federalism does seem somewhat appealing but I doubt the Sinhalese masses would support it…”

They will if it is explained clearly to them. That is where the UNP and the urban elite have totally failed this country, by being unable to explain to the masses clearly, in their language, what federalism entails. The Sinhalese masses will follow strong leadership, but that leadership needs to have the right vision.

 
Karikalan
2007-06-26 10:57:10

No, I’m not talking about a specific offer, but as long as the offer of talks and the disawoving of a military solution is on the table, the UN is not going to call for a separate state (something that they have in any case never done before, except where constitutionally possible).
What about Kosovo?
“Believe me I’m not being quick in my judgement. I’ve come to this concusion after 25 years of war. I’ve already told you why it will not happen.”
The LTTE has always been supposedly defeated many many times before…
“I’m afraid you are misinformed in this. Do you have any evidence of it?”
Setting up more HSZ in Tamil areas.
“How do the Tamils know that the SL won’t allow more riots similar to 1983 now that no military deterrent such as the LTTE exists?”
“ The reason that there has been no repeat of ‘83 is because successive SL govts since then have realised how counterproductive it was, and the Sinhalese themselves have understood just how wrong it was to do such a thing.”
How about the mini-riots in Trinco and Hambantota last year? How come the JVP is still popular?
“You mean live a life wherein we are second class citizens at the mercy of chauvinist leaders engaged in ethnic bidding. ”
“ But since 25 years of war have also failed to produce peace & security for the NE Tamils, a new alternative must be found. Before it’s too late.”
Sometimes I do worry that maybe the Tamils should’ve stopped and cooperated with the Indians. Sometimes I worry that there will never be an end to this bloody war in paradise…
The LTTE will not stop until either it is obliterated or achieves its given mandate… attempting the latter might cause the former… Once again time will tell…

 
Karikalan
2007-06-26 11:00:09

Note: Fixed formatting

“No, I’m not talking about a specific offer, but as long as the offer of talks and the disawoving of a military solution is on the table, the UN is not going to call for a separate state (something that they have in any case never done before, except where constitutionally possible).”

What about Kosovo?

“Believe me I’m not being quick in my judgement. I’ve come to this concusion after 25 years of war. I’ve already told you why it will not happen.”

The LTTE has always been supposedly defeated many many times before…

“I’m afraid you are misinformed in this. Do you have any evidence of it?”

Setting up more HSZ in Tamil areas.

“ The reason that there has been no repeat of ‘83 is because successive SL govts since then have realised how counterproductive it was, and the Sinhalese themselves have understood just how wrong it was to do such a thing.”

How about the mini-riots in Trinco and Hambantota last year? How come the JVP is still popular?

“ But since 25 years of war have also failed to produce peace & security for the NE Tamils, a new alternative must be found. Before it’s too late.”

Sometimes I think that maybe the Tamils should’ve stopped and cooperated with the Indians. Sometimes the conflict seems endless…

The LTTE will not stop until either it is obliterated or achieves its given mandate… attempting the latter might cause the former… Once again time will tell…

 
David Blacker
2007-06-26 13:31:09

“What about Kosovo?”

The former Jugoslavia was created in the post-WW2 period (much like the former USSR), and so was a short-lived entity. The UN call for a redivision of the territory waas therefore practical, and also justifiable because of the continued systematic ethnic cleansing and genocide of the Kosovo Albanians. Neither of those conditions are true in the NE.

“The LTTE has always been supposedly defeated many many times before…”

True, but you’ll note that I have not claimed that they’ll be defeated anytime soon. Just that they will be weakened to the point that they will be impotent to counter GoSL policy and unable to capture the support of the NE Tamils.

“Setting up more HSZ in Tamil areas.”

Setting up of security zones is quite different from colonisation, whichh entails introduction of a foreign civil populace, subservience of the native populace, harvesting of local natural resources for the colonisers consumption with little or no benefit to the locals, etc. THere is an HSZ in Colombo, for example, but I wouldn’t say that Colombo is being colonised, would you?

“How about the mini-riots in Trinco and Hambantota last year?”

Your question answers itself. They were “mini” both in size and duration, and quickly squashed by the authorities. They in no way aapproached anywhere close to the scale of ’83. There will always be such incidents in 3rd World nations (heck, yoou’ll get ‘em in the US, if you remember the LA riots), but it’s not the incidents that are indicative of change, but the authorities’ handling of it.

“How come the JVP is still popular?”

The JVP will always have a power base in the south that is partly hereditary, and partly a result of incompetent governance by the SLFP. The JVP’s platform isn’t necessarily anti-Tamil, but anti-establishment and pro-worker. Perhaps you’ve heard that when the Tamil lodgers from Pettah were evicted recently, the JVP were one of the parties that protested.

“Sometimes I think that maybe the Tamils should’ve stopped and cooperated with the Indians.”

I think VP made a major strategic mistake when he broke with India, yes. He does not have the strength to bring about the stalemate needed to drag concessions out of the GoSL.

“The LTTE will not stop until either it is obliterated or achieves its given mandate…”

Have you considered that perhaps neither will happen for a long time, and the interim period will see the NE Tamil population decimated for no good end? Can the Tamil diaspora not do something to change this suicidal route?

 
look
2007-06-26 13:57:01

“The former Jugoslavia was created in the post-WW2 period (much like the former USSR), and so was a short-lived entity. The UN call for a redivision of the territory waas therefore practical, and also justifiable because of the continued systematic ethnic cleansing and genocide of the Kosovo Albanians. Neither of those conditions are true in the NE.”

David,
you are again twisting the facts to suit your needs

Kosovo was an integral part of Serbia, and that for centuries, and only indirectly part of Yugoslawia (through being a province of Serbia). And if there had been a Genocide in Kosovo at the time before the war, then there is definitely one going on right now in Sri Lanka… Kosova-Albanians actually have a far weaker case for independence than Tamils, both historically and due to current political developments (Kosovo is the heartland of the Serbs and it is an uncontested fact that Albanians were settled there by the Ottomans after the Battle of Amselfeld in 1389)…

 
David Blacker
2007-06-26 14:18:10

“you are again twisting the facts to suit your needs”

Not at all. I’m not arguing the factors for Kosovo’s case with the UN, but pointing out why those factors differ from, and are therefore not applicable to, the NE.

“And if there had been a Genocide in Kosovo at the time before the war, then there is definitely one going on right now in Sri Lanka…”

If you think so, then you are unaware of the definition of genocide and ethnic cleanising, which in the former is the murder of an entire ethnic group and in the latter the wholesale or systematic removal of an ethnic group from an area. Neither of this has ever occurred in SL. At least, not by the GoSL, though the LTTE has attempted it with Sinhalese & Muslims in the Northern Province.

 
look
2007-06-26 14:41:10

“Not at all. I’m not arguing the factors for Kosovo’s case with the UN, but pointing out why those factors differ from, and are therefore not applicable to, the NE.”

Ok then, but your explanations were wrong! Kosovo was only indirectly part of the short-lived entity called Yugoslavia. Rather, it was an essential part of Serbia for centuries (not a republic of its own like, say, croatia), and still the UN called for its independence… So why should it not call for an independent tamil state when the tamil areas had been independent from the rest of Sri Lanka before foreign colonization?

Secondly, my point was that if you call that what happened in Kosovo a Genocide, then you MUST call that what is happening in the NorthEast a Genocide, too. I am not saying that there was actually one in Kosovo (in fact I doubt that there was one, and I do not think that there is one going on in Sri Lanka right now). Similar things deserve similar names, however.

 
David Blacker
2007-06-26 15:14:53

“Kosovo was only indirectly part of the short-lived entity called Yugoslavia. Rather, it was an essential part of Serbia for centuries (not a republic of its own like, say, croatia), and still the UN called for its independence… ”

But Serbia was an integral part of Jugoslavia, and when the latter fell apart, the rules changed, as it were, and many things were up for consideration. Couple that with the blatant physical persecution and ethnic cleansing of the Kosovar Albanians, and you see a different picture emerging from SL.

“So why should it not call for an independent tamil state when the tamil areas had been independent from the rest of Sri Lanka before foreign colonization?”

Just how independent they were is still a matter of some debate, but even if they were, that’s not enough reason for the UN to make the call. If it was, they would have.

“Secondly, my point was that if you call that what happened in Kosovo a Genocide, then you MUST call that what is happening in the NorthEast a Genocide, too.”

Why must I? You’ll have to draw better parallels than what you have for that. But let’s leave aside the much-misused term genocide for the moment and look at ethnic cleansing — there certainly was a policy of it by the Serbs in Kosovo, whereas there isn’t such a policy by the GoSL.

 
look
2007-06-26 15:44:00

what about the odd 150.000 tamils chased away during the recent campaign by the army? in kosovo there were “only” 80000 civilians on the run when the serb army fought the UCK. again, if you call that what the Serbs did during their war against the albanian separatists ethic cleansing, then the sri lankans are doing it on a far larger scale.

 
look
2007-06-26 15:49:46

by the way, Yugoslavia fell apart some ten years before the war in Kosovo. This war had actually not much to do with the breakup. And I doubt that albanians in Serbia are/were more persecuted than tamils in sri lanka. No mob violence, no white van killings there.

 
 
David Blacker
2007-06-27 10:44:25

“what about the odd 150.000 tamils chased away during the recent campaign by the army? in kosovo there were “only” 80000 civilians on the run when the serb army fought the UCK”

Look, you need to understand what ethnic cleansing is first of all. It is NOT the temporary removal of parts of a population from combat areas, such as the Army has done (fairly well) in the NE, the Brits did (very well) in Malaya, and the US and USSR did (very badly) in Vietnam and Afghanistan. This was done to separate the enemy from that popular support base. In Malaya and the NE, as soon as the enemy was pushed out of the area and it was secure, the civilian population was encouraged to resettle. In Kosovo, what the Serb paramilitary police units were doing was driving out ethnic Albanian Kosovars from areas that were deemed to be ethnically Serb, so that their homes and lands could be occupied by ethnic Serb Kosovars and Serb nationals from the Republic of Serbia. I hope you can see the distinction.

“by the way, Yugoslavia fell apart some ten years before the war in Kosovo. This war had actually not much to do with the breakup”

I never said it was. In fact it was arguably the breakup that caused the war.

“And I doubt that albanians in Serbia are/were more persecuted than tamils in sri lanka. No mob violence, no white van killings there”

No, just concentration camps, institutionalized rape, mass executions of entire populations, etc. Have a look at the Hague war crimes list. This is not a subject for jokes, Look.

 
look
2007-06-27 14:36:58

David,

“No, just concentration camps, institutionalized rape, mass executions of entire populations, etc. Have a look at the Hague war crimes list. This is not a subject for jokes, Look.”

where was I joking? However, you are mixing things up, the huge war crimes happened during the war in bosnia-herzegovina (committed by the forces of the serbian minority there and not by serbia, which was a different republic then) and not during the campaign in kosovo. of course there have been crimes committed by the serb forces in that campaign, but probably not on a larger scale than what is done by the sri lankans in the tamil homeland. and serbia was not bent on ethnically cleansing the kosovo which was, by the way, almost exclusively inhabited by albanians, but only in “combating terrorism”. I hope you see the similarities to sri lanka, David.

 
David Blacker
2007-06-27 18:36:57

“However, you are mixing things up, the huge war crimes happened during the war in bosnia-herzegovina”

I’m afraid you’re misinformed, Look. Just one indicted Serb criminal (Valstimir Djordjevic, who’s just been arrested) is accused of killing hundreds of Kosovar Albanians, deporting 800,000 (Al Jazeera). There are many more.

“but probably not on a larger scale than what is done by the sri lankans in the tamil homeland”

On what basis do you think so? Numbers? Or tactics?

“and serbia was not bent on ethnically cleansing the kosovo which was, by the way, almost exclusively inhabited by albanians, ”

Again, you’re misinformed. Fighting terrorism was the name under which the ethnic cleansing was carried out, and the latter was done so that the Serb minority (Kosovo wasn’t exclusively ethnic Albanian, though they were the majority, just as the Muslims were in Bosnia) could be artificially expanded by Serbians from Serbia, giving the latter justification for retaining the province.

 
 
 
 
2007-06-17 04:48:58

and I’m not actually in India, btw

 
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Nawam Maha Perahera Today (4)

AS: Firstly, I would like to say that there is no need for being so patronizing and using bad language to make a point. I think we are all adults and can have a discussion without resorting to swear words and etc. Really, the worst debaters I know...

Omr: Are you a vegetarian? If you are and you care about ALL animal life equally I can understand your sentiments. If not STFU, seriously. Parading elephants is evil but slaughtering thousands of cows, goats, chickens and fish on a daily basis is...

Trishaw Economics (4)

Firaz: Not all of them run with the dispatch guys. Most now run independently because they just get more hires off the road. People are more inclined to jump in a meter taxi these days. That’s what I hear.

Nawam Maha Perahera (Photos) (2)

Annonymouse: Poor elephants. Thank you for that sensitive portrayal of their plight in the service of Buddhism!

Omr: That first picture is brilliant.

Thanamalwila (Photos) (15)

Omr: Imagine if all the money spent on Mihin was spent on buses instead? Wouldn’t that have been a better investment for the people of Sri Lanka?

indi: indi.ca always was a photoblog, I just keep working cameras to death. I couldn’t afford to replace my last one for almost a year

Maldives President Resigns After Soft Coup (4)

Omr: Also, the lack of criticism among Maldivians about the rise of Islamic extremism in their islands is frightening. People actually want females to be flogged for having sex outside marriage? I mean really? People running about destroying...

Omr: Wonder whether he can come to Sri Lanka and get involved in SL politics? Seems to be quite forward thinking and classy.

the way of the dodo: Personally, I will never trust the people of a dry country to make reasonable decisions about anything.

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