Pure Terrorism: Bus Bombings
The LTTE was pursuing an almost moderate strategy, suicide attacks/assassination attempts on the Foriegn Minister, Army Commander, Defense Minister, dissidents, military targets, etc. Those acts were all cease-fire violations, killing more bystanders than actual targets, but they were not the raw, civilian flesh-rending terrorism of yore. However, the LTTE has now begun what they started a bonafide and terrifyingly random campaign of terror against average citizens in the South. Suicide bombers have blown up civilian buses in Meetiyagoda and Nittambuwa, killing at least 22 very normal people and wounding over 110. These are attacks on buses, which is not the mode of transport for military or VIPs. This is terrorism, plain and simple. These are planned attacks on innocent civilians by the LTTE.
Attribution
Right now the bombs are attributed to the LTTE. They typically deny all attacks, even when ruled guilty by international organizations (SLMM, EU). The only alternative would be a nationalist group trying to blame the LTTE, but they’re simply not as trained at bombing, nor do I think they would adopt those tactics. The timing is also pointed, the attacks coming after the LTTE warned of retaliation for air raids. It’s not to stretchy to say that this is an LTTE bombing, but people will debate.
Mode
This was an attack on civilians. My friend is in Hikkaduwa (without a phone) and I’m honestly kinda scared. Average people take the bus. I take the bus to Kandy and (If I remember correctly) it costs like Rs 150, or $1.50. The people on the bus are going home, or going to work, or doing mundane business. They are average people, even poor, and elites with jobs and petrol allowances don’t take the bus. Not that anyone is less deserving of life, but what the fuck.
In the Meetiyagoda/Peraliya bombing they report to have found parts of a female suicide bomber. The Nittambuwa reports don’t say (to my reading). Tamil Net reports a time bomb. These were murderous and maiming attacks on innocent civilians. The attack on Peraliya is just cruel, that being the site where almost 1000 died in that eerie tsunami train. Tamil grievances or not, killing average people on the bus is wrong. Nothing makes it right.
Motivation
I dunno, but the LTTE has been attacking the South, especially Galle. They staged a purely symbolic raid on the Naval base, and now two remote attacks on the Matara-Colombo road and Nittambuwa. These are bumblefuck places with no strategic value, so pure terror is the only value. The LTTE is trying to scare average people and possibly provoke an ethnic backlash, spiralling into deeper bloodshed. So far Sri Lankans have not given the intended reaction, which is commendable (and telling). Like, perhaps Tamils can live here if the LTTE just lets the tensions go down. Of course, less tension and discrimination means less tyrannical LTTE with war powers, so they’re not exactly motivated towards peace, or a better life for anyone.
In Short
Terrorism is a much abused word and I try not to bandy it, but this is pretty clear. The LTTE is attacking innocent civilians on buses. That is terrorism and it is wrong. No other events justify killing a father on his way to work, or a daughter on the way to school. It is simply not right. I’m so sorry for their families, and I’m so worried. One for my friend, and two because the LTTE seems to be clamoring for escalation so bloody and so loud.
I await with interest the LTTE apologists’ explanations for these bombings. Those would be a nice pretzel of an argument. Anyone?
Essentially, these bombings indicate two things:
1. The LTTE is abandoning their long-term strategy of attempting to get de-listed as a terrorist organisation.
and
2. The LTTE is under a lot of pressure.
The LTTE is under a lot of pressure.
I’m not sure what sort of pressure you think they’re under, but you’re probably at least partly correct here. Part of the LTTE’s story – and one reason why moderate Tamils don’t oppose it as openly and strongly as you might wish – is that it’s due to them that there’s not been another “anti-Tamil pogrom” since 1983; it’s the knowledge that they have the ability to retaliate against the South, and will retaliate against the South, that keeps the State from wholesale massacres of Tamils. Now, they’ve been playing up the death of Tamil civilians for the past several months, and even saying that these civilians were deliberately targetted by the Army. Ergo, they feel they have to justify their claim to be our protectors-by-deterrent by retaliating. In a sense, they constrain themselves by their own rhetoric.
In addition, there is a growing frustration that while the North and East are literally being destroyed by the war, life in the South is actually getting better – and the people of the South don’t seem to care or even notice the incredible amount of suffering that every day life in that area has become. Bombings are a way of putting the South through a small shadow of that. “Two bombs and you get all upset, mate? Our people have been living with much much worse for years.” The South doesn’t pay the price for a breakdown of peace in the same way the North and East do – yet, as very many Tamils feel, it’s the intransigence of the government the South chose that’s responsible for the war restarting. So let them feel the price. Bomb the b*******.
No, this doesn’t condone the bombings.
Major Human Rights Violations against NorthEast Civilians since Sri Lanka Rajapakse’s Election one year ago (November 19, 2005 to date):
Killed 1280
* by Sri Lankan Armed Forces 762
* by paramilitaries 382
* by Tamil Resurgence Force 23
* by thugs 1
* by unidentified 112
Disappeared 387
* by paramilitaries 186
* by Sri Lankan Armed Force 158
* by Sri Lankan Govt “home guards†11
* by unidentified 32
Civilian Deaths in Sri Lanka by Ethnicity since Sri Lanka Rajapakse’s Election one year ago (November 19, 2005 to date):
Tamils 1280
Sinhalese 90
List of Atrocities (last 12 months)
* UN Special Envoy Alan Rock states that the Government of Sri Lanka “security forces are supporting and sometimes participating in the abductions and forced recruitment of children†as “child soldiersâ€.
25 December 2005:
* Joseph Pararajasingam, Tamil Member of Parliament, Human Rights Advocate – Assassinated during Midnight Mass by members of the GoSL “Special Task Force†Admitted by SL President
2 January 2006
* 5 Tamil students extra judicially executed by Special Task Force on Trincomalee beach. Admitted by SL President
29 & 30 January 2006
* 7 TRO Humanitarian Aid Workers abducted, presumed dead, by Paramilitary forces affiliated to the GoSL. Amnesty International Statement.
13 May 2006
* Massacre in Mandaithivu: Sri Lanka Navy & Sri Lanka Para Military murder 13 civilian Tamils (including a 4 month old baby and a 4-year-old child)
8 June 2006
* Sri Lanka soldiers massacre Tamil family of four in Vankalai. Pictures
17 June 2006
* Sri Lanka Navy murders 6 Tamil civilians in Pesalai Church
6 August 2006:
* 17 ACF (Action Against Hunger a French NGO) humanitarian aid workers executed at their office by members of the Sri Lanka Armed Forces.
14 August 2006:
* 51 School girls and 3 staff members killed by a Sri Lanka Air Force bombing of a well known humanitarian zone.
8 November 2006
* 47 internally displaced persons (IDP) killed by GoSL Army shelling of an IDP camp in Vaharai registered with the UN & ICRC. Amnesty International Statement.
10 November 2006
* N. Raviraj, Tamil Member of Parliament assassinated by persons affiliated to GoSL.
9 & 10 December
* 19 IDPs killed by GoSL Army shelling of an 3 IDP camps Vaharai registered with the UN & ICRC
20 December 2006
* “Disappearance” of Vice Chancellor Professor Sivasubramanium Raveendranath by paramilitaries affiliated to GoSL
Continuing:
* Denial by GoSL of access to over 40,000 IDPs in Vaharai No food or medicine has been allowed into the area since Nov 29 (2 weeks supply was allowed in at that time). This has been going on since mid-August.
Hello,
I don’t know who you are. But seems extream LTTE Guy. I dnno how u express this kind of stupid ideas. I think fault is on our hand. Because as a major nationality we guys give u maximum freedum. So better to react like ISRAYAL.
LOOK AT SMALL COUNTRY ISRAYAL.HOW ISRAYAL BEHAVES WITH TERRORISTS.WE MUST FIGHT WITH TERRORISTS LIKE “ISRAYAL”.
Then only Sri Lanka will survive.
What is the source of these stats?
Are you saying no one has died at the hands of the LTTE?
and killing civilians on a bus helps how? How does anything the LTTE does make life better for Sri Lankans or Tamils?
the LTTE fight for the rights of Tamils…
you seem to be proposing that the Tamils accept the rights and goodwill if and when the sinhala south wishes to give it too them…
“the rights of any people are those that they are willing to fight for…”
in 1976 the tamils voted for independance…
the tamils no longer seek their security from the GOSL…
you seem to believe that the because in your view things are “good” in the south and tamils are treated “well enough” that the LTTE should just say, “ah, you buggers aren’t so bad machan. we’ll stop fighting and let you tell us what rights we deserve…”
are you insane…
1st your interpretation of the “lives” of tamils means nothing to any of us… you can’t begin to image life for tamils in colombo or the NE… and the depth of the hatred of the GOSL…
I have a bad feeling that this is going to just continue. GOSL will target areas in north including civillians and LTTE will do Tit for Tat killing civillians in south. I am not justifying either but at the end of the day it’s the civillians who r gonna suffer both sides. I am pretty sure this is a reply for the recent attacks
Indi this is pure terrorism by the SLA. Period.
Anyone who doesn’t think for a second that the SLA army intelligence didnt do this must be kidding themselves. Come on guys this is a pathetic attempt to tarnish the LTTE. You are fooling yourselves if you think that the LTTE are so weak that they have to resort to this. Just two days ago the army intel penetrated a km into Nedunkerni and detonated a claymore killing two govt workers and damaging a govt vehicle. This shows that the SLA will go to any length even if it hires out so called Karuna (ex EPDP) guys to do it instead. So far in all the clashes the LTTE district level forces have only enagaged against the LTTE. The Tamil Eelam standing army and other special units have not yet been deployed.
True Vaharai but this is just a few of the massacres of Tamils by the SL army and its paramilitaries commited this year under the Mahinda regime. There were more Tamil politicians, newspaper editors, journalists, bank officials, two actoresses and their mother, A’Level students talking on the beach, two christian fathers in Jaffna, Hindu priests………etc.
Its interesting to note that there were no posting condemning these acts, on Tamil civilians by the army, by Indi or others. But when there is something like this down south they feel the urge to comment. This shows that those in the south have alraedy separated the island in their own minds and that they really dont care what happens to Tamils at the hands of the SLA. It also shows that their claims of protecting Tamils rights against the LTTE is just crocodile tears. These two attacks in Colombo are just a small example of the violence unleashed by the SL army on Tamil civilains in the north and east this year. I am in no way condoning it. I personly think attacks on civilians are a henious crime and unacceptable.
my other comment didn’t appear… i must not have posted properly…
it was about the fact that indi and GOSL always blame LTTE for everything… where is the evidence…? this could have been karuna or anyone else trying to give LTTE a bad name…
attacks against ALL civilians should be condemned… but indi you never have a blog entry when tamils get bombed or shelled… it is always an aside… and excused by you
“Right now the bombs are attributed to the LTTE. They typically deny all attacks, even when ruled guilty by international organizations (SLMM, EU).”
this is funny, because when alan rock stated that GOSL supports and engages in recruitment of child soldiers and SLMM stated that GOSL forces executed the 17 ACF tamil aid workers you all disparaged them and asked for evidence… NOW you seem to claim that they speak the unfettered truth…?
Have you read that post? I pretty roundly condemned GoSL for working with Karuna at all.
but you discount the SLMM statement on the 17 ACF workers execution…? can’t have yer cake and eat it too indi…
and the statement i made was more in reference to the general “you” – people who support GoSL…
On the ‘why don’t you comment on x’ question, I’m pretty clear on the scope of this blog. I comment on stuff that directly affects me, from the mundane to the severe. I’m not a journalist and I’m not a new source. I comment the most on the suicide bombs in Colombo that snarl traffic, kill my friends parents, assassinations of people I respect, etc. It is all a very personal view and you get what I see, with research that sometimes surprises me.
I roundly condemn attacks on all civilians, and violence in general. I am pretty harshly critical of GoSL and I actually take heart in that I seem to be equally reviled by both extremes. However, please understand the scope of this blog, and the very nature of a blog. It is a personal artifact, and I consciously try to to limit its scope to events that directly effect me. This is a blog of one guy who lives in Colombo and would more than anything like to talk about something else besides politics and war. If you have information or sources about attacks in North/East I would love to hear them, and you should really start a blog. That’s simply not my life, however, and I don’t write what I don’t know.
this is the problem with the colombo “set”… and why the elite of this country have failed their people and created a “failed state”…
you don’t “see” how the events and atrocities that the GOSL perpertates and has perpetrated in the NE since independance have affected and will affect your lives more than ANY thing else…
you blog about what affects you (and thanks for the explanation of what the “nature of a blog” is – i’m such a luddite) from your ignorant perspective and then when correncted take refuge and revel in your the fact that you “write what you know”
maybe you need to be more interested in what your govt does in your name… then you won’t be so suprised and shocked when events happen that disrupt your partying…
What a way to send a message to the colombo ‘set’ !
Kill people who travel in jam packed public buses for 100 Rs. .
Yep! Sri Lanka is like NY,NY where billionair mayor Bloomberg takes subway to his office!
Well done!
Well he’s not claiming to be the sole blogging representative of the “Colombo set” so I’d guess he’s entitled to blog about whatever he wants, because get ready for this mind blowing fact, this is his blog! But he’s already belaboured that point to you to no avail.
You’re misdirecting your anger. Be angry at your representative in parliament. Be angry at a corrupt and incompetent government. Write them a letter, vote for someone else, join the army (it’s a man’s life they say), but don’t condemn this bloke for blogging about what affects him. It’s not his responsibility to single-handedly enlighten the Sinhalese, or anyone else for that matter.
Why do you claim this government represents it’s people? I don’t feel it is very representative of me. I want peace at any price, a reasonable inflation rate and for my country to take what I feel is it’s rightful place both politically and economically in the world because I feel we’ve been massive underachievers since we gained independence. What do you want? Do you really feel that the killing of more people, guilty or innocent will help appease the injustices committed by either side? Have you lost faith in Sri Lankans as a whole to that extent? Are you really so embittered as to feel that an eye for an eye is the only way to achieve what is good for the country, or for the Tamil people for that matter?
i don’t believe in killing civilians on either side…
but it seems that those on kottu seem to put much more value and react more strongly when civilians in the south are killed… look at the stats… more about 1,000 more tamil civilians have been killed…
i dont see similar outrage from indi, david blacker, or other GOSL/SRI LANKA supporters when tamil civilians are killed… THAT IS THE POINT I AM MAKING…
that should say, “about 1,000 more tamil civilians have been killed than sinhalese…”
Funny, ain’t it? People like Vakarai/Haha/Nuts (or whatever other pseudonym he currently feels like trolling under) demand that the GoSL leave the NE alone to govern itself, but are happy to demand that someone else must blog to certain standards. Why don’t you start a blog yourself and see just how many people are interested in your viewpoint?
Jey, I was actually speculating how many days would pass before someone like you accused the GoSL of bombing its own civilians. You beat my estimate by about four days when you made a half-hearted attempt at it on an earlier post. Why does the GoSL need to stir up the populace? The war is going well, most of the Sinhalese population backs Mahinda’s war effort, and in fact are calling for even stronger measures. What exactly is gained by bombing a bus? The LTTE on the other hand has ample motive. Revenge for that alleged Lurp claymore attack for one, or a futile attempt to stir up a riot. C’mon, Jey, I’m all for baseless accusations by the ignorant, but try and at least justify your theory beyond a conspiracy theory plotline that would have even Hollywood cringing.
blacker, yet again you show your ignorance…
why are comments open, other than for people to post…
also,
why is it that you always pick some random aspect of a post and attempt to deflect or belittle the person or ideas by those means rather than address the substance of the post…???
by the way you’re streching with this, “demand that the GoSL leave the NE alone to govern itself, but are happy to demand that someone else must blog to certain standards.”
where did i state that indi had to live up to any standards…?
all i’m interested in is a free and open debate on the issues… when i see glaring errors in logic, ignorance of ground realities, overlooking of key evidence or arguments and a general smarmy “know it all” attitude of what is “good for the tamil” people I WILL SPEAK OUT… you all seem to be afraid of that and seek to belittle and besmersch… but then, that’s why there’s a war on, no? the inability of the “south”, the sinhalese throughout history to address the grievances and aspirations of the tamils…???
history repeats, over and over and over again…
“why are comments open, other than for people to post…”
Well, comments are open for people to comment on the subject, not to demand that particular other subjects be blogged about. An article has been posted, so why not discuss it instead of attempting to divert to your own particular agenda? If you feel certain subjects aren’t given sufficient attention, start your own blog and write about it. It’ll be enlightening too find out how many people (other than your alter egos) are interested. I promise to comment too.
“why is it that you always pick some random aspect of a post and attempt to deflect or belittle the person or ideas by those means rather than address the substance of the post…???”
Well, the bulk of your post was a complaint that Indi should blog about things that interest you instead of what interests him. I thought this was a rather silly viewpoint, and so I’ve said so. The rest of your rant (with falsified statistics, half-truths, and exaggerations) has already been dealt with (http://www.indi.ca/2006/11/prabhakarans-speech/). Why do you feel the need to change your name and bring it up again?
“by the way you’re streching with this, “demand that the GoSL leave the NE alone to govern itself, but are happy to demand that someone else must blog to certain standards.â€where did i state that indi had to live up to any standards…?”
You mean other than this? “attacks against ALL civilians should be condemned… but indi you never have a blog entry when tamils get bombed or shelled…”
“when i see glaring errors in logic, ignorance of ground realities, overlooking of key evidence or arguments and a general smarmy “know it all†attitude of what is “good for the tamil†people I WILL SPEAK OUT…”
You mean attitudes like this: “the LTTE fight for the rights of Tamils…” or do you mean glaring errors like this: “* Joseph Pararajasingam, Tamil Member of Parliament, Human Rights Advocate – Assassinated during Midnight Mass by members of the GoSL “Special Task Force†Admitted by SL President”? Hmm. Got any links to back up these falsifications? Time to change your name again, no? :)
You’ve asked why there’s no outrage from Indi & myself when Tamil civilians are killed. I can’t speak for Indi, but as far as I can see, he’s shown plenty of outrage (sometimes disproportionate). As for myself, I’m not particularly outraged by civilian deaths in war. I am, however, outraged by war. I understand war. Death is an integral part of it. The people who choose war over diplomacy also understand the nature of war. If you want outrage, be outraged at the leaders the Sinhalese & Tamils have. Be outraged at our inability to bring about peace even after it was given to us.
with regard to the murders of Pararjasingam and the 5 trinco students i was just quoting your SL media reports:
Sri Lanka President blames security forces for murder of Joseph Pararajasingham and five Trincomalee Students – Sri Lanka Sunday Leader, 22 January 2006
“… it is the security forces in general and the Special Task Force (STF) in particular that came in for serious stick from President Rajapakse no less when he met a Tamil National Alliance parliamentary delegation the previous week as exclusively reported in The Morning Leader of Wednesday, January 18. The TNA delegation comprising R. Sampanthan, Gajan Ponnambalam, N. Raviraj and Suresh Premachandran had at the meeting with the President specifically raised four issues, namely the murder of MP Joseph Pararajasingham, five students murdered in Trincomalee, the threat to the life of Mannar Bishop, Rev. Joseph Rayappu at the hands of the navy and the harassment of Tamils in Colombo.
Stating that they were convinced the security forces were involved in the killings, the TNA delegation urged the President for urgent action against the perpetrators. And the President’s response was stunning.
Rajapakse said he too is convinced the security forces were involved in the murders and that it had been done to cause him embarrassment.
The President had gone on to say Joseph was killed inside a church to project the impression he was anti-Christian and bring him into disrepute. Not stopping at that, Rajapakse pointed out there was a heavy security presence in the area and the killers could not have got away without the help of the security forces personnel. “There is a systematic effort to discredit me and make me out to be anti-Christian,” he had also said.
Continuing, the President told the TNA MPs, he believed the STF was responsible for the murder of the Trincomalee students and was again done to discredit him. Rajapakse had also drawn the attention of the TNA to the fact the STF was set up by the UNP.
He went on to say the STF should not have been sent to Trincomalee and that it was done without his knowledge. Having said that, the President did not disclose what action was taken against the person who had sent the STF to Trincomalee, a point not lost on the TNA MPs who were to comment on it later.
The President further said the threat on the life of the Mannar Bishop could also very well be aimed at bringing him into disrepute. Rajapakse’s response to the charge of Tamils being harassed in Colombo was also the same – to bring him into disrepute.
This for all practical purposes was a very dangerous trend considering the position taken by the President, Commander-in-Chief and Defence Minister that murders were carried out to bring him into disrepute, thereby expecting total exoneration and abdicating all responsibility. “
I thought we weren’t allowed too quote local newspapers, Haha/Nut/Vakarai/etc?
that’s your only response… feeble david, very feeble… when your on sinhala, south focused rascist press states something critial of their own leader you need to accept it… just as i would accept something anti LTTE on tamilnet…
by the way, what do you mean by Haha/Nut/Vakarai…?
also, you criticize the stats i posted and the instances of human rights abuses by the GOSL… please point out and provide more accuurate ones if you have them… especillly with regard to the number of civilians of each ethnicity killed… if you have different ones please post…
thus far the reports i’ve seen state:
Tamils 1280
Sinhalese 90 but we need to add the recent bus bombs… so that’ll take this to approximately 11o… or so, no?
so, 110 civilian sinhla – i condemn that…
but compare that to 1,280 tamil civilians…
do you see what the govt you support is doing to the tamils…???
Please understand that I am in no way a supporter of Mahinda, or of Ranil for that matter. But it is patently obvious to all that the Sunday Leader is a newspaper that is highly critical of the government. You write about the ‘Sinhala, south focused racist press’, now if you were referring to the Daily News, this would be an apt description, but not by any stretch of the imagination could one apply it to The Sunday Leader.
Also, please note that here in the ‘Sinhala South’ newspapers of the Sunday Leader variety are being published and are freely available to all and sundry. Whereas if a Tamil Lasantha tried something like this in the LTTE held areas, before long he would end up in a body bag.
Finally, it will be a cold day in hell if something anti LTTE is ever published on tamilnet. And what is more, the unfortunate editor will before long be in urgent need of winter clothing.
i am also outraged that the leaders of sri lanka couldn’t come to an agreement… but that is because of the inabilitiy of the “south” to agree on what to offer the tamils… you see the mess that all the committee reports from the APC have created… ????
how can we tamils trust you all when you can’t even agree whatyou want tooffer us?
Well you see, we live in a democracy and people have the right to dissent. You on the hand, live in the LTTE’s world where dissent is prohibited.
“You mean attitudes like this: “the LTTE fight for the rights of Tamils…—
that is my view… you saying i don’t have the right to an opinion…??? why do you think the tamils who suppport the LTTE do so???
Yes, we know that is YOUR view. NOT the view of the Tamils. That’s why it fits perfectly under your categorisation of “a general smarmy “know it all†attitude of what is “good for the tamil†people”. Thanks for clearing that up.
“You mean other than this? “attacks against ALL civilians should be condemned… but indi you never have a blog entry when tamils get bombed or shelled…—
this was not advice to indi on blogging, it was a comment to show that he is biased and inherently rascist…
Really? All you’ve managed to show us is that YOU are biased and inherently racist.
Not really, what has been shown is that Indi is both anti-Buddhist and anti-Tamil.
he’s also anti-tank, anti-podean and anti-freeze
he’s a nazi, a KKK clan leader, paratrooper, disco dancer and protector of avifauna… in his spare time he likes to read about patriotic butterflies and has a large collection of sea shells.
am I leaving anything out Indi?
haha, silly
but he is a rascist
He is also a religious bigot vaharai.
…but lest we forget, one can’t deny that Indi is an anti-Tamil racist, closet or otherwise, sinhalese or their wannabes non-withstanding.
Being anti-LTTE doesn’t make you anti-Tamil. I’d be curious to see any examples of my racism. If you don’t want to engage with ideas I suppose attacking the person is an easy way out.
[...] http://www.indi.ca/2007/01/pure-terrorism-bus-bombings/ [...]
[...] As Indi Samarajiva’s post on his blog points out: Terrorism is a much abused word and I try not to bandy it, but this is pretty clear. The LTTE is attacking innocent civilians on buses. That is terrorism and it is wrong. No other events justify killing a father on his way to work, or a daughter on the way to school. It is simply not right. I’m so sorry for their families, and I’m so worried. One for my friend, and two because the LTTE seems to be clamoring for escalation so bloody and so loud. [...]
LOOK AT SMALL COUNTRY ISRAYAL.HOW ISRAYAL BEHAVES WITH TERRORISTS.WE MUST FIGHT WITH TERRORISTS LIKE “ISRAYAL”.
Then only Sri Lanka will survive.
I don’t even think there’s a point debating these bus bombings with the likes of Vaharai and Jey. They are clearly irrational, to say the least, and the bus bombings are unquestionably pure examples of a clear LTTE policy of terrorizing civilians.
It certainly ain’t the government, because as masochistic as this government is, they’d have picked a non-tourist area, even if they wanted to blame the LTTE for terrorism. What’s the point in blowing up a bus in the heart of the coastal tourism area? And no other group other than the LTTE is capable of suicide attacks. The Hikkaduwa bomb was believed to be a suicide attack.
Secondlym,
where you getting your “facts” ravana??? neither of the bus bombs were suicide…
and both jey and i DID condemn the killing of civilians… i just don’t make ANY distinction between bus bomb, car bomb, suicide bomb, truck bomb and a bomb dropped from a jet fighter or a shell fired from a multibarrel…
IF THEY KILL CIVILIANS BOTH ARE BAD IN MY VIEW… PERIOD
but the inabilitiy of you people to understand that is what pisses the tamils off… indi, pisses and moans about the poor guy on his way to work, etc… horrible YES, but what of the civilians of vaharai who have been displaced for four months with minmal assistance being allowed into the area by the GOSL…
why aren’t you all AS PISSED OFF ABOUT THAT AS about a few bombs in the south…???? hmmm? hmmmm?
We aren’t pissed off because there weren’t any military targets around those buses in the south. Vakarai, on the other hand, is full of Tigers hiding behind civilians. It’s sad that Tamil civilians must die because their representatives are gutless cowards, but that’s life in war. If you don’t like it, choose reps who’ll protect you not hide behind you.
you’re the gutless coward… why did you leave the army if you soooo believe in the war against the LTTE… see it through if you’ve got the balls you pussy…
There are something called the geneva convention, demanding that the lives of civilians should be protected even in times of war. Furthermore, you say it’s ok for the gosl to kill civilians because the northeast now is a war theatre. However, it was turned into one by the gosl itself through its continued occupation. I don’t know why the ltte – assuming that it indeed has been responsible for those bombings – cannot let the south a little of its own medicine. And leaving morality aside for a moment, the (potential) rational of the ltte for carrying out such attacks is pretty obvious:
1) tourist arrivals will decline, thus hurting the long-term ability of the gosl to wage war
2) a clear message is sent to the gosl that killing tamil civilians will not go unpunished, thereby forcing the gosl a) either to stop carrying out such actions, b) deploying more scarce resources for the protection of the south and thereby easing the military pressure on the northeast or c) admitting that the gosl cannot protect its civilians while waging war at the same time, which would probably force the south to question the rationality of the current strategy of the gosl.
In any case, the northeast will be better off. These are clear military/political goals. If I was a civilian in the northeast, I would expect that my representatives take some appropriate action to force the gosl to cease its atrocities.
Of cource, it is reprehensible to target civilians deliberately. However, you cannot expect the ltte to obey to certain moral standards while your government just don’t gives a damn…
Thought it was about time for a name change, Haha/Vakaarai/Nuts/ggg.
“There are something called the geneva convention, demanding that the lives of civilians should be protected even in times of war. ”
No kidding? Is hiding behind civilians a new form of protecting them?
“Furthermore, you say it’s ok for the gosl to kill civilians because the northeast now is a war theatre.”
Where have I said this? I said the deaths of Tamil civilians is a sad result of the Tigers using them as shields.
“And leaving morality aside for a moment, the (potential) rational of the ltte for carrying out such attacks is pretty obvious”
You’re right, anything’s justifiable. Hitler was able to justify his murder of the Jews, so it’s no great feat that you’re able to justify the killing of a couple of busloads of civilians.
“In any case, the northeast will be better off”
Clearly. :)
“These are clear military/political goals.”
Yes, just as the killing of the Jews had clear military/political goals. Funnily, they didn’t think so at Nuremburg. I’m glad you mention Geneva, because the accords say that all civilians must be protected. In the end, the GoSL will always be able to say they did their best and at worst were callous. The LTTE on the other hand can’t claim the buses in the south were legit targets. Even if they are economic targets, it’s still illegal.
“If I was a civilian in the northeast”
But you’re not, are you? You’re an armchair commando egging on a war in which you never (and never will) have any real part. Be proud.
“I would expect that my representatives take some appropriate action to force the gosl to cease its atrocities.”
Appropriate action would be to move aaway from civilian areas in Vakarai, and stop hiding behind the civilians. I’ve many friends in and from the East. They don’t think the LTTE is acting “appropriately”. They’re my friends. I believe them. Who are you? Do you even live in SL?
“Of cource, it is reprehensible to target civilians deliberately”
Glad you think so. Have a word with the sole reps (:)) about it.
haha, david
just because there seems to be some similarity in the views of some of the posters you want to lump them together into “one” person… sorry bub, check with indi, he can tell who’s who through the IP addresses… in fact he could probably turn them into the police so they can come get us and take us to the “4th floor”… i wouldn’t put it past him… ;) love ya indi
Vaharai kindly link at least one sentence in any blog where Indi has been racist or has made a racist statement… otherwise stop talking out of your ass…
If you can’t argue a point don’t cop out by calling the other person a racist, its pathetic and reveals alot more about your own personality/insecurities than it does the other person
David,
my point was that you seem to suggest that it is ok for the gosl to bomb those civilians because the ltte presumably uses them as “shields”. You must be aware, though, that these people used to live before war broke out and the only reason why they would like to leave now is because the gosl is bombing them with the explicit aim of driving them out, so that they can more easily capture the territory. Obviously, the gosl is doing in the north what the ltte (presumably) does in the south- targeting civilians in order to pursue military ends.
The fact that the ltte seems to be reluctant to let the civilians leave despite the terror campaign of the gosl is, of course, unfortunate. However, you might recall that the Russians refused to evacuate Stalingrad when the city was attacked by Hitler because they believed that “no one defends a deserted place”… Perhaps the ltte is applying the same logic… don’t know… as you said, I’ve never fought in a war and would prefer to miss this opportunity. However, there is nothing wrong in sympathizing with one side even if one is not actively participating in a war… If someone asked you to choose between the allies and the fascists in WW 2, I suppose you would have an opinion, wouldn’t you… Same here, I believe that compared to the gosl the ltte are the good guy, even though they are far from perfect…
“my point was that you seem to suggest that it is ok for the gosl to bomb those civilians because the ltte presumably uses them as “shieldsâ€. ”
Again, where have I said this? I never said it was “OK”; I said it was a sad result of the LTTE using the civillians as shields. It will continue to happen as long as the LTTE hides behind the people it claims to represent and protect. The GoSL, on the other hand, claims to be doing its best to minimise Tamil civilian casualties. You may claim that they’re not doing enough, and I would agree with you on that. However, the GoSL isn’t deliberately targeting civilians. Yes, you may point out the recent claymore and the Mannar airstrike, but there’s no evidence that it was deliberately aimed at killing civilians. It could very well have been a mistake. The bus bombings, however, are deliberate. There was no military presence anywhere on or near the buses. The bombs were placed on the buses to kill civilians. Do you deny this?
“You must be aware, though, that these people used to live before war broke out and the only reason why they would like to leave now is because the gosl is bombing them with the explicit aim of driving them out, so that they can more easily capture the territory. “”
Actually, the people in question (in Vakarai) are IDPs; they didn’t live there before. The GoSL isn’t shelling them to move them out; it’s shelling the Tigers who are hiding behind them. It’s common practice to prep an area with arty and airstrikes before a ground offensive. If the civilians are not released by the LTTE, even more will die once the infantry are sent in. This is probably what the LTTE wants (for propoganda purposes), and is the reason why the Army hasn’t moved in yet.
“Obviously, the gosl is doing in the north what the ltte (presumably) does in the south- targeting civilians in order to pursue military ends.”
What military end is served by bombing a busload of civilians, pray tell?
“The fact that the ltte seems to be reluctant to let the civilians leave despite the terror campaign of the gosl is, of course, unfortunate.”
I doubt the Hague would term it “unfortunate”.
“However, you might recall that the Russians refused to evacuate Stalingrad when the city was attacked by Hitler because they believed that “no one defends a deserted placeâ€â€¦ ”
Quite so. Hitler, Stalin, and Prabha have a lot in common.
“However, there is nothing wrong in sympathizing with one side even if one is not actively participating in a war… If someone asked you to choose between the allies and the fascists in WW 2, I suppose you would have an opinion, wouldn’t you…”
Having an objective removed sympathy with one side in history is normal. Egging and cheering on the deaths of civilians, and calling for more war when you are sacrificing nothing yourself is rather abominable. If you are so eager for war and violence, join up with the Tigers and put your balls where your mouth is. I have a lot of respect for the Tiger troops who I’ve fought against, but nothing but contempt for bastards like you who sit back and cheer the deaths of other Tamils’ kids.
You’re wrong ggg, the LTTE is using the people as human shields and not allowing them to leave their grip. They attack Sri Lankan army camps from within refugee centres and then when the SLA retaliates using their fire sourcing equipment they land in the refugee centres and people die – and then the LTTE makes a big huge cry about it when they did all that on purpose to get the people killed as a propaganda tool. In other words, the SLA do not know where the LTTE is firing from and are just retaliating. But the bus bombs are carefully planned to kill innocent people who have nothing to do with the conflict or the theatre of war. That is the difference. These bombs are placed on buses with the pure intention of killing civilians. It is nothing but terrorism.
Indi this is pure terrorism by the SLA. Period.
Anyone who doesn’t think for a second that the SLA army intelligence didnt do this must be kidding themselves. Come on guys this is a pathetic attempt to tarnish the LTTE. You are fooling yourselves if you think that the LTTE are so weak that they have to resort to this. Just two days ago the army intel penetrated a km into Nedunkerni and detonated a claymore killing two govt workers and damaging a govt vehicle. This shows that the SLA will go to any length even if it hires out so called Karuna (ex EPDP) guys to do it instead. So far in all the clashes the LTTE district level forces have only enagaged against the LTTE. The Tamil Eelam standing army and other special units have not yet been deployed.
We are talking about an irresponsible govt with an irresponsible army who think they can defeat the LTTE and are taking the island back to war. They will do anything to gain political mileage. Its the reality in Sri Lanka today unfortunately.
All of what you said applies more to the LTTE.
“the LTTE is using the people as human shields and not allowing them to leave their grip.”
BULLSHIT, 25,000 just came out and they are now being hassled and “dissappeared” by the GOSL and their quislings the karuna group…
” They attack Sri Lankan army camps from within refugee centres and then when the SLA retaliates using their fire sourcing equipment they land in the refugee centres and people die”
bullshit, the camp managers have stated that NO FIRING CAME FROM THE CAMPS… stop spouting off the GOSL lies… the LTTE and TRO have called for international monitors to be allowed to stay in the camps… but the GOSL says no… why? because then they wouldn’t be able to shell the IDP camps with out killing white people…
“In other words, the SLA do not know where the LTTE is firing from and are just retaliating.”
bullshit… the SLA have been given the GPS coordinates of ALL IDP camps by the ICRC… they KNOW WHERE THE IDPs are and are targeting them inorder to “herd” them…
“But the bus bombs are planned to kill innocent people who have nothing to do with the conflict or the theatre of war.”
bullshit, no one is “innocent”. Tax payers money is used to fund the war and the whole country will be the “theatre of war” this time around… what, you think that you can confine the war to the NE and go about your lives in the south as if there is nothing wrong…? sorry, not possible…
It is nothing but terrorism.
there is no such thing as terrorism, it is just a catch phrase that those in power use to malingne the powerless
nelson mandela and george washington were “terrorists”
“bullshit, no one is “innocentâ€. Tax payers money is used to fund the war and the whole country will be the “theatre of war†this time around… what, you think that you can confine the war to the NE and go about your lives in the south as if there is nothing wrong…? sorry, not possible…â€
By your rationale any Tamil Sri Lankan who contributes/supports the LTTE is also not an innocent so why bother going on about their deaths/abductions et al… and IF as you say the majority in the North and East support the LTTE (including the IDP’s) then your argument of it being a ‘theatre of war’ should excuse the army from firing on them regardless of whether the LTTE are using them human shields or not. All’s fair in love and war after all eh…
Do you see how you’ve just shot your whole argument down?
Oh, he won’t let a small thing like that stop him, Tariq. As soon as he’s talked himself into a corner, he’ll just change his name and come back to start the argument from the beginning again, like he’s done here http://www.indi.ca/2006/11/prabhakarans-speech/
So are civilians innocent or not, Vakarai/Haha/Nuts/Joke/Etc?
i’ll be watching you in galle
I’m flattered.
ya, looks like an interesting couple of panels you’re on… hahaha
Not really, but I guess wankers like you will pay for anything.
my point, badly made, was that due to the GOSL behavior and treatment of tamil civilians all civilians in the country are vunerable…
once again, I DON’T AGREE WITH OR CONDONE THE TARGETING OF ANY CIVILIANS…
but look at the differences in the number of civilians on each side killed…
1,280 tamil civilians
110 sihahla civilians…
see any problem here tariq?
Definitely… the problem is that you can’t make up your mind if civilian casualties are acceptable or not. On the one hand you “DON’T CONDONE THE TARGETING OF CIVILIANS” and on the other you say that no one is innocent and thus justify attacks on civilians….
Make up your mind and come back with a coherent argument…
Plus what the hell does it matter that there’s a disparity in Singhalese and Tamil civilian deaths… in the end Sri Lankans are dying… so what you think the LTTE is justified in bridging this gap?
“but look at the differences in the number of civilians on each side killed…”
That’s exactly why it’s incumbent on the LTTE to come back to the negotiating table. Didn’t you say that civilian deaths are a sign that their leadership can’t protect them? Well, looks like the GoSL’s managing better than most.
Didn’t you say that civilian deaths are a sign that their leadership can’t protect them? Well, looks like the GoSL’s managing better than most.
or that the LTTE isn’t targeting civilians…
That’s exactly why it’s incumbent on the LTTE to come back to the negotiating table.
i agree… there is no military solution currently available…
but, and you seem a logical person at times ;), what is there to discuss…? the GOSL can’t get it’s shit together to offer anything to the LTTE… their “negotiating” stategy, as stated by Melinda and Ranil, was to weaken the LTTE and get them in a “international safety net”…
over and over again, when given the chance to solve the “tamil problem” the GOSL and the sinhala south rather than negotiating in good faith and/or adhering to the agreements arrived at have persued a stategy of marginalization of the tamil “representatives” be it pre independance, post independance, B-C pact, DS-C Pact, soulbury constitution… all aborgated…
how can the tamils and the LTTE put any trust in the process or have any trust that the process will result in an implementable, secure agreement that is written in stone…
i keep asking y’all that question and you never give a concrete answer… you go on and on about “democratic space” and this that and the other… but you don’t realize we’re tired of your bullshitting, just sooooo tired buddy…
“or that the LTTE isn’t targeting civilians…”
but it is. Just not very well. Like most other things the Tigers have attempted.
“the GOSL can’t get it’s shit together to offer anything to the LTTE… ”
Why should it? Sinhalese, Muslims, and Burghers (and even Tamils) are living in relative happiness (as far as 3rd World standards go). The military side is progressing well. On the other hand, Tamils in the NE are suffering horribly and the LTTE is getting its butt kicked. Who do you think should be making offers?
“how can the tamils and the LTTE put any trust in the process”
“How” is not the question, but rather “what” is the alternative?
“but you don’t realize we’re tired of your bullshitting, just sooooo tired buddy…”
Well are you prepared to die for that lethargy?
[...] indi.ca on the changing tactics of the LTTE and why the attack on civilians amounts to terrorism. “However, the LTTE has now begun what they started a bonafide and terrifyingly random campaign of terror against average citizens in the South.” Neha Viswanathan [...]
Remember this is only an accusation at the very least. No formal investigations have been carried out. The police said “Who else could have done it?” What a joke. In western countries the police would say “We are keeping an open mind and following all the leads. ” until they have concrete evidence. Sadly this is not the case in SL.
The police are saying it was a suicide bomber. How can they tell for sure? If we If the explosive was under the seat of a Sinhalese women it would be very difficult to tell from the remains.
This is all political. Indian minister is coming to SL this week to invite SL to SARCC meeting. These bombings are good cards for MR to play to the indians and to SARCC to justify his dreams of being Dutagemmunu in Vaharai. The SARCC members will probably be persuaded to continue to turn a blind eye.
Good. The LTTE has to be kicked out the east anyway, sometime :)
“Remember this is only an accusation at the very least. No formal investigations have been carried out. ”
Ah is that what you meant when you said this: ”
Anyone who doesn’t think for a second that the SLA army intelligence didnt do this must be kidding themselves.”
Do you have proof of any such prior attack by the SLA that you can point to that sets such a precedent? If it was the SLA, why choose a tourist area? Why shoot ourselves in the foot? Why not blow up a bus in Polonnaruwa or Anuradhapura, where it’ll be more credible? Jey, don’t be a bigger fool than you’ve alreaady revealed yourself to be.
Blacker one must remember that Sri Lanka is a failed state. Germany just put a freeze on the Tsunami aid money. Other countries will follow suite. Sri Lanka is the laughing stock of South Asia and the SL govt has zero credibility.
Further in the 1972 and 1989 insurrections the SL army was responsible for mass scale killings of innocent Sinhala youth who had nothing to do with the JVP. The army just followed orders and killed its only Sinhala people in the thousands just to make a political point that communism was not going to be tolerated.
In August the Muttur French Aid organisations Tamil workers were killed by enraged Sri lankan govt soldiers as stated by the Nordic monitoring mission. The SL govt shot itself in the foot by first calling Australian special investigators and then preventing them and the SLMM to all the evidence and the masscre site. The Autralians left frustrated and so did the SLMM head.
Despite several investigative journalists including one for ABC proved through video footage that the SL army and Intelligence were harbouring and training Karuna members against the spirit of the Ceasefire agreement, the SL army and defence minister lied through their teeth and said that there was no Karuna group working with them.
Recently the UN official Alan Rock report accusing the SL army of forcefully recruiting Tamil chidren into the Karuna group was the lid on the coffin in terms of SL govt credibility.
So David Blacker to say that these bus bombings were not carried out by army intel to defile the LTTE and dismiss it as plain conspiracy theories is being plain ignorant. Sri lankan army and Mahinda govts track record so far makes my suggestions highly plausible.
You are the real fool man. Wake up and save your people from your maniacal president and army chiefs who think they are Dutu Gemunu and Co reincarnated.
“Blacker one must remember that Sri Lanka is a failed state.”
Must one? I don’t know which part of SL you live in, but if it’s the NE, I’ll agree with you that there are many failures over there, particularly by the so-called representatives of the Tamils, but also by the GoSL itself. The rest of the country is doing pretty well for a 3rd World nation. Five-hundred vehicles a day are registered by the RMV on average; Sinhalese children are fairly well-fed, educated and happy (by 3rd World standards); employment and inflation could be better, but it also could be worse. I could go on. It’s starkly different to the NE isn’t it? Shouldn’t you be questioning your self-proclaimed reps as to what they’re going to do to change failure to success?
“Germany just put a freeze on the Tsunami aid money. Other countries will follow suite. Sri Lanka is the laughing stock of South Asia and the SL govt has zero credibility.”
Certainly, Germany’s temporary freeze is a setback that the GoSL’s corruption invited, but this is hardly relevant. And certainly hardly comparable to the LTTE’s proscription in most of the western world. As for other countries following Germany’s lead, they’ve given no such indication. If you think they have, please provide a link to such evidence and I’ll be happy to stand corrected. I’d already stated elsewhere that this would happen. As for your attempt to polarize this discussion by trying to trade insults with me, I find it rather juvenile, Jey. You might somehow think I’m a staunch defender of the GoSL; I’m not. Didn’t even vote for this lot. I can say the same about your accusations directed at Indi. It might be interesting for you to know that he’s been accused of being anti-GoSL by the other end of the spectrum. Why do you find it necessary to force people to be defensive? Polarization just prevents debate. As I told you before, over on http://www.moju.lk there are rabid right-wing Sinhalese demandinng that Tamils be packed off to India. If you want to trade insults, go check it out. I’m surprised that all you outspoken Tamil nationalists are not defending the LTTE as hotly over there as you seem eager to do with us more middle-of-the-road types. What’s the matter — scared of a fight?
“Further in the 1972 and 1989 insurrections the SL army was responsible for mass scale killings of innocent Sinhala youth who had nothing to do with the JVP. The army just followed orders and killed its only Sinhala people in the thousands just to make a political point that communism was not going to be tolerated.”
Firstly, it was the ’71 insurrection, not ’72. Secondly, the mass killings were not aimed at innocent Sinhalese youth, but at the JVP/DJV. All those targeted ((bar a small number killed in personal grudges) were thought to be connected to the JVP (often mistakenly). The security forces have never, however, targeted their own supporters. Do you have any such evidence? THAT is what I asked for (don’t you read too well?), not evidence of atrocities. Both the LTTE and the GoSL have committed atrocities, we know that.
“In August the Muttur French Aid organisations Tamil workers were killed by enraged Sri lankan govt soldiers as stated by the Nordic monitoring mission.”
Since no evidence has been presented, I see no point in discussing this incident other than us trading “he said/she said” silliness. Again, what exactly is your point?
“Despite several investigative journalists including one for ABC proved through video footage that the SL army and Intelligence were harbouring and training Karuna members against the spirit of the Ceasefire agreement, the SL army and defence minister lied through their teeth and said that there was no Karuna group working with them.”
Yes, politicians lie. Be they Bush, Blair, Tamilselvam, or Rajapakse, they all lie. So are you trying to point out to us that politicians lie? I’ll concede they do.
“Recently the UN official Alan Rock report accusing the SL army of forcefully recruiting Tamil chidren into the Karuna group was the lid on the coffin in terms of SL govt credibility.”
Well, until Rock actually presents evidence to back up these claims (which I’ll admit might possibly be true), no one will take him seriously. Again, I must ask you to get to the point (if you do have one).
“So David Blacker to say that these bus bombings were not carried out by army intel to defile the LTTE and dismiss it as plain conspiracy theories is being plain ignorant. ”
Ignorant of what? The damning evidence you don’t have, or your laughable attempts to muddy the discussion by bringing up irrelevant issues?
“You are the real fool man. Wake up and save your people from your maniacal president and army chiefs who think they are Dutu Gemunu and Co reincarnated.”
Thank you, Jey, for your flattering confidence in my abilities to save “my” people from the evil prez and the Army, but sadly many of “my” people live in the NE under horrible oppression and in terrible suffering. I can vote this GoSL out if need be. What are you going to do for OUR people in the NE? I can’t vote the Tigers out. They claim to represent you, but hide behind your women and children. How long are you going to keep your cards close to your chest? Are you going to wait ’til you’ve no more cards to play? For many children in the NE (the generation that will repopulate your separate state) malnutrition is causing long-term damage. Are you going to tell them you’re playing cards while they starve?
The post’s still not appearing. Should I try posting again, Indi? it says “duplicate comment” but the post doesn’t show up.
Just bumped into his website & am amazed to some comments made by David Blacker!!
David mate, it is a pity…..I don’t think you know much about what is going on in your own country….in fact don’t think most of you realise the country is in $hite state because of the extreme views in both (Sinhala & Tamil) sides.
David Blaker sounds like no one other a brain washed, extremist racist pig….(oh like he called the others ‘bastard’ and ‘wanker’….he is the combination of both). It is because of the people like you the ethnic problem in the country still persists! Grow up, give the people their freedom, support a federal state, support the APC & come to settlement.
“give the people their freedom, support a federal state, support the APC & come to settlement.”
Actually, I support the first two points whole heartedly, and the APC with certain reservations. None of these three things have been brought up in this thread by anyone. So what exactly is your point? If you’d been around here before, you’d know that I’ve used similar vehemence against the other end of the spectrum (right-wing Sinhalese nationalists) and been accused of being a racist, Tiger-loving, NGO arse-kissing peacenik. So do you have anything further to add?
You might want to step up to the plate here and say something if you’re so keen on it.
Don’t worry Nesan. He is also a Christian bigot who attacks other religions whenever he feels like it.
Vaharai, David, et al – I’d be interested on your views on the post ‘Dilemma’. Check Ephemeral Ruminations – October 19th. Same topic – need perspectives
Been trying to post a reply for hours but it’s not appearing. Is the site under maintenence?
“one must remember that Sri Lanka is a failed state. “
Exactly where in Sri Lanka do you live, Jey — in the North & East? That’s certainly an area that has been failed, both
by the GoSL as well as the representatives of the Tamils. The rest of the country’s doing pretty much OK as far
as 3rd World nations go. Low infant mortality, high literacy rate, passable employment and inflation. I could
go on. For instance, the RMV registers an average of 500 vehicles a day, apparently. Not bad for a failed state, no?
“Germany just put a freeze on the Tsunami aid money. â€
Germany’s freezing of tsunami aid is unfortunate, but only to be expected, given the levels of corruption in the GoSL.
It isn’t, however, remotely comparable to the proscription of the LTTE in most of the western hemisphere. So what’s
your point, Jey? And btw, none of the other donors have indicated they plan to follow Germany’s lead. If they have, please
tell me where and I’ll stand corrected. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have, but I don’t think it’s true.
“Sri Lanka is the laughing stock of South Asia and the SL govt has zero credibility.â€
What exactly is the purpose, Jey, of this juvenile attempt to polarise the discussion? Are you hoping I’ll spring to the
defense of the GoSL as mindlessly as you do to the LTTE? Polarisation stifles debate; is that your wish? Is there any
point in us coming online and saying “Hurra for the GoSL†or “Three cheers for the LTTE� I have noted that a lot
of the more outspoken Tamils on this site fall back on insults and personal attacks once their arguments are stalled.
You accuse Indi & myself of being racists or Sinhalese nationalists when we have constantly spoken up for the
Tamil cause against the GoSL, and in fact been accused of being Tiger sympathisers. I provided a link to http://www.moju.lk
in the hope that some of you might actually open your mouths when needed and speak out against some of the
right-wing Sinhalese over there who are calling for Tamils to be packed off to India. Sadly, y’all are hiding over
here, preferring to fight with us middle-of-the road types. What’s the matter, scared they’ll call you names?
“Further in the 1972 and 1989 insurrections the SL army was responsible for mass scale killings of innocent Sinhala
youth who had nothing to do with the JVP. The army just followed orders and killed its only Sinhala people in
the thousands just to make a political point that communism was not going to be tolerated.â€
Actually, it was the ‘71 insurection. But anyway, the civilians killed (in both) were certainly not SEEN to be innocent by the
GoSL. They were seen as JVP/DJV members or supporters (sometimes incorrectly), and callously killed. And it wasn’t to
prove any point but to prevent the GoSL being overthrown. The GoSL, however, did NOT kill its own supporters;
which is what you’re saying was done in the bus bombings. So I ask again, do you have any evidence of the GoSL
EVER having done this in the past? On the other hand, we have ample evidence of the LTTE slaughtering Sinhalese
civilians.
“In August the Muttur French Aid organisations Tamil workers were killed by enraged Sri lankan govt soldiers as
stated by the Nordic monitoring mission. â€
Well, IF this was proved to be the work of the GoSL, then it must be condemned, but since there hasn’t been any
conclusive evidence, is there any poin t discussing this? Either way, all it proves is that both sides have committed
attrocities. I’ll concede they do.
“Despite several investigative journalists including one for ABC proved through video footage that the SL army
and Intelligence were harbouring and training Karuna members against the spirit of the Ceasefire agreement,
the SL army and defence minister lied through their teeth and said that there was no Karuna group working with
them.â€
Oh dear, you mean you’ve discovered that politicians lie? Did you really think that there were WMDs in Iraq too? Let me
whisper a little secret to you: POLITICIANS LIE. Bush, Blair, Tamilselvam, Rajapakse, they all lie. As for the spirit of the
CFA, where was that said spirit when the LTTE was planting claymores in early last year and assassinating Kadirigama?
Bit lacking in spirit yourself, no? The LTTE chose this route ealy last year, and now you’re whining cos you’re losing.
“Recently the UN official Alan Rock report accusing the SL army of forcefully recruiting Tamil chidren into the
Karuna group was the lid on the coffin in terms of SL govt credibility.â€
Hardly, no? The weapons are coming in, no one’s condemning the daily operations by the GoSL forces, and the world
turns. No one cares, Jey. Mostly because Rock just made accusations without presenting evidence. Sort of like Bush
& Blair and their WMDs. If the UN believes Rock, why don’t they present the evidence and put it before the Security Council?
“So David Blacker to say that these bus bombings were not carried out by army intel to defile the LTTE and
dismiss it as plain conspiracy theories is being plain ignorant. â€
Ignorant of what? The damning evidence you don’t have, or the wild conspiracy theories you do have?
“You are the real fool man. Wake up and save your people from your maniacal president and army chiefs who
think they are Dutu Gemunu and Co reincarnated.â€
Thank you, Jey, for your steely confidence in my ability to save “my†people from the evil prez and the Army, but sadly,
many of “my†people live in the NE under true evil and oppression. I can vote out this GoSL if needed. What can you
do to change the LTTE which hides behind your women and children? Are you going to keep your cards close to
your chest til you’ve no cards left to play? Or will you play instead with the lives of your children, the next generation
of NE Tamils, who will suffer permanent future damage because of malnutrition? What will you tell ‘em, Jey — that you
played cards while they starved?
“Germany just put a freeze on the Tsunami aid money. â€
Germany’s freezing of tsunami aid is unfortunate, but only to be expected, given the levels of corruption in the GoSL.
It isn’t, however, remotely comparable to the proscription of the LTTE in most of the western hemisphere. So what’s
your point, Jey? And btw, none of the other donors have indicated they plan to follow Germany’s lead. If they have, please
tell me where and I’ll stand corrected. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have, but I don’t think it’s true.
“Sri Lanka is the laughing stock of South Asia and the SL govt has zero credibility.â€
What exactly is the purpose, Jey, of this juvenile attempt to polarise the discussion? Are you hoping I’ll spring to the
defense of the GoSL as mindlessly as you do to the LTTE? Polarisation stifles debate; is that your wish? Is there any
point in us coming online and saying “Hurra for the GoSL†or “Three cheers for the LTTE� I have noted that a lot
of the more outspoken Tamils on this site fall back on insults and personal attacks once their arguments are stalled.
You accuse Indi & myself of being racists or Sinhalese nationalists when we have constantly spoken up for the
Tamil cause against the GoSL, and in fact been accused of being Tiger sympathisers. I provided a link to http://www.moju.lk
in the hope that some of you might actually open your mouths when needed and speak out against some of the
right-wing Sinhalese over there who are calling for Tamils to be packed off to India. Sadly, y’all are hiding over
here, preferring to fight with us middle-of-the road types. What’s the matter, scared they’ll call you names?
“Further in the 1972 and 1989 insurrections the SL army was responsible for mass scale killings of innocent Sinhala
youth who had nothing to do with the JVP. The army just followed orders and killed its only Sinhala people in
the thousands just to make a political point that communism was not going to be tolerated.â€
Actually, it was the ‘71 insurection. But anyway, the civilians killed (in both) were certainly not SEEN to be innocent by the
GoSL. They were seen as JVP/DJV members or supporters (sometimes incorrectly), and callously killed. And it wasn’t to
prove any point but to prevent the GoSL being overthrown. The GoSL, however, did NOT kill its own supporters;
which is what you’re saying was done in the bus bombings. So I ask again, do you have any evidence of the GoSL
EVER having done this in the past? On the other hand, we have ample evidence of the LTTE slaughtering Sinhalese
civilians.
“In August the Muttur French Aid organisations Tamil workers were killed by enraged Sri lankan govt soldiers as
stated by the Nordic monitoring mission. â€
Well, IF this was proved to be the work of the GoSL, then it must be condemned, but since there hasn’t been any
conclusive evidence, is there any poin t discussing this? Either way, all it proves is that both sides have committed
attrocities. I’ll concede they do.
“Despite several investigative journalists including one for ABC proved through video footage that the SL army
and Intelligence were harbouring and training Karuna members against the spirit of the Ceasefire agreement,
the SL army and defence minister lied through their teeth and said that there was no Karuna group working with
them.â€
Oh dear, you mean you’ve discovered that politicians lie? Did you really think that there were WMDs in Iraq too? Let me
whisper a little secret to you: POLITICIANS LIE. Bush, Blair, Tamilselvam, Rajapakse, they all lie. As for the spirit of the
CFA, where was that said spirit when the LTTE was planting claymores in early last year and assassinating Kadirigama?
Bit lacking in spirit yourself, no? The LTTE chose this route ealy last year, and now you’re whining cos you’re losing.
“Recently the UN official Alan Rock report accusing the SL army of forcefully recruiting Tamil chidren into the
Karuna group was the lid on the coffin in terms of SL govt credibility.â€
Hardly, no? The weapons are coming in, no one’s condemning the daily operations by the GoSL forces, and the world
turns. No one cares, Jey. Mostly because Rock just made accusations without presenting evidence. Sort of like Bush
& Blair and their WMDs. If the UN believes Rock, why don’t they present the evidence and put it before the Security Council?
“So David Blacker to say that these bus bombings were not carried out by army intel to defile the LTTE and
dismiss it as plain conspiracy theories is being plain ignorant. â€
Ignorant of what? The damning evidence you don’t have, or the wild conspiracy theories you do have?
“You are the real fool man. Wake up and save your people from your maniacal president and army chiefs who
think they are Dutu Gemunu and Co reincarnated.â€
Thank you, Jey, for your steely confidence in my ability to save “my†people from the evil prez and the Army, but sadly,
many of “my†people live in the NE under true evil and oppression. I can vote out this GoSL if needed. What can you
do to change the LTTE which hides behind your women and children? Are you going to keep your cards close to
your chest til you’ve no cards left to play? Or will you play instead with the lives of your children, the next generation
of NE Tamils, who will suffer permanent future damage because of malnutrition? What will you tell ‘em, Jey — that you
played cards while they starved?
The tamils are a people with their own history. they are entitled to their own state. why can’t you see that?
Whether they are entitled or not, Ggg, they won’t get that state with the bunch of guys you’ve got at the reigns. After 25+ years the LTTE have given you nothing but death, destruction and destitution, with no sign of Eelam anywhere on the horizon. What’s next? Hope for the best and keep banging?
what is the alternative then? disbanding the ltte and simply watching the state (re-) instituting all those discriminatory policies it implemented BEFORE the ltte emerged? At least, the ltte managed to create a de facto state, i.e. there are areas in the island where the state has completely lost its sovereignty to the ltte . This is far more than, for example, the palesteinans have achieved , and that with probably less resources… By the way, you could pose your question differently: after 25 (50) years of trying to quell the liberation struggle of the tamils, what has the state achieved? lost about 60% of the northeast, thousands of young soldiers killed and maimed, forgone economic development by allocating money to the military etc: wouldn’t it be more prudent to simply let the tamils go? then, over time, the tamils themselves could deal with the ltte…
“then, over time, the tamils themselves could deal with the ltte… ”
Really ggg and how the fuck are you going to do that… I don’t think a “pretty please” is going to cut it with Ol’ uncle Prabha. I think the term “snowball’s chance in hell” just about sums it up…
Oh wait I know… you’ll could take up arms and fight for it… brilliant…
well, the northeast is not North Korea… there is a fair amount of interaction with the rest of the world… also, the diaspora has been exposed to western democracies for decades now and they have seen what proper administration, rule of law etc. can achieve economically… quite a lot of potential for change, don’t you think?
It’s nice that you’ve ‘seen’ democracy, but Sri Lanka actually has one. Deeply flawed I admit, but way better than the LTTE. We also have reasonable economic growth through all this. Don’t you think we have a potential for change? Haven’t we changed a lot?
yeah, democracy… one in which members of parliaments and journalists can be shot dead with impunity, university deans get kidnapped (by the way all tamils)… you do not want to call sri lanka a democracy just because people are required to vote once in while… you may remember that adolf hitler, too, was voted into office in an election… but was his regime a democratic one?
“what is the alternative then? disbanding the ltte and simply watching the state (re-) instituting all those discriminatory policies it implemented BEFORE the ltte emerged?”
No one is unreaalistic enough to expect the LTTE to be disbanded, but the Tamils need to ensure that the LTTE truly represents their needs and aspirations (not just their race), and goes about getting thosse in an effective manner. Not by squandering lives for no gain.
“At least, the ltte managed to create a de facto state, i.e. there are areas in the island where the state has completely lost its sovereignty to the ltte”
Bandits and gangsters can achieve much the same (and have). It doesn’t make that area a de facto state. Also, a state is recognised by its ability to defend its territory and people,, something the LTTE cannot do.
“By the way, you could pose your question differently: after 25 (50) years of trying to quell the liberation struggle of the tamils, what has the state achieved? lost about 60% of the northeast, thousands of young soldiers killed and maimed, ”
Soldiers know the risks. And we’re all volunteers. We don’t need to conscript women or kidnap kids. Armies exist to defend the state with its blood and the blood of its enemies. In 25 years the state has prevented the separatists from gaining their goals, while ensuring the rest of the country outside the NE lives in relative (3rd World) peace & prosperity. On the other hand, the Tamils are suffering far more than they did before. It’s time to change, and only the Tamils can make that change.
Just because a people have their own history doesn’t mean they should have their own country. The Moors, Malays, Burghers, Veddah, estate Tamils, and even castes can make the same claim.
yeah, but they do not fight as hard for it as the tamils obviously do…
Which Tamils ggg? You mean the expat Tamils who have relatively great lives can’t even spell the word ‘fight’ let alone send their kids to the war or do you mean the Northern Tamils who have to sacrifice their kids or perhaps you mean the IDP’s who haven’t got a clue as to where their next meal is coming from?
Fighting hard may be admirable, but it’s smarter to get what you want without having to fight.
well, they have tried other means for 25 years (before the ltte was founded), have they not? The whole problem could have been solved back then rather amicably. but we all know what happened to all those pacts, agreements etc. now its too late since too much has happened since then…
We know the Tamil people tried for 25 years. Then they became more militant. Now you’ve tried violence for 25 years. Isn’t it time to give up on that? I addressed this issue in The Wrong Path, but I think the point is that violence has been a deeper failure than politics and peace. War has brought abject misery and poverty to Tamils AND failed to achieve a separate state. At least with the peaceful path people weren’t dying and suffering so. It’s been 25 years. Violence has failed. Try something else.
“At least with the peaceful path people weren’t dying and suffering so.”
That is not true. What about all those race riots in the 50′s, 60′s and 70′s? And Black July? It got worse from decade to decade, not better…
Ggg, I agree that very little was achieved before the ’80s and the taking up arms by the Tamils. I also, for the record, think that uprising was justified, just as it is justified that that GoSl suppress it. However, just as the Tamils recognised that peaceful protests were failing, they must now recognise that violent terrorism has also largely failed. It has, however, achieved something — convinced the Sinhalese that the Tamils are willing to fight and must be taken seriously. So why not move on. Use that achievement to come to a diplomatic solution AND recognise that that solution will take many years of negotiations. No one is asking for unconditional surrender here. The LTTE should’ve used the threat of violence and not violence. Once you use your trump card and fail, you’re screwed.
The Tamil diaspora can put the most pressure on the LTTE, and ensure the change that’ll benefit the NE Tamils. Instead, they’ve turned their backs on Eelam. They’re throwing cash & rhetoric at the problem and hoping it’ll solve itself.
However, the LTTE (and by proxy the Tamils) have now lost that opportunity in the short term. The inability of the LTTE to hold the East ensures that the GoSL will be now less concessionary. Therefore the NE Tamils will have to ride out the current cycle of violence, and hope that the LTTE will be able make its way back to the table and not fuck up again.
David,
I do understand your point and agree that both the ltte and the state should find a compromise, that negotiations are better than violence. But, actually, the ltte (and the state) did cease to fight in 2001, and a negotiated settlement was pursued by it.
The problem is obviously that the ltte and the gosl cannot agree on how much “autonomy” should be given to the northeast- and there is simply no “objective” way to determine the amount of autonomy the northeast is entitled to. You cannot expect the ltte
to accept ANY offer the gosl makes just for the sake of peace. And you cannot expect the ltte to negotiate for an indefinite period of time without any tangible results because the gosl can live with the status quo- which implies economic development in the south and continuied occupation of the north. But the ltte cannot do that since all they have ever tried to do was to change the status quo.
So what has the ltte achieved through negotiations for the tamils in the last 4 years? How long should they negotiate even though it seems to be fruitless endeavour until they are allowed to go back fighting?
Your impatience with the progress made in the four years of the CFA are significant, ggg, for it’s similarity to that of the LTTE’s. But did you seriously think it’d be all sorted in four years? Look at Israel/Palestine or N Ireland. It takes decades of negotiation. Even if progress via diplomacy is slow, it’s still better than war, particularly if you are on the losing side. You yourself said that the LTTE had a de facto state, and that situ was most evident during the CFA. Now, that’s being lost.
What’s wrong with negotiating indefinitely if in the interim you’re able to achieve your goals and your people are’s situ is being improved? Even if you don’t want too negotiate forever, you must be realistic in your time frames. Nations are not created in a year or four. And when you say you won’t negotiate anymore (as the LTTE did after the Washington donor conference), you throw away your options.
Right now, the LTTE cannot come back to the tablle without massive loss of face, and it seems unable to hold back the GoSL militarily. The LTTE has squandered through its impatience all the sacrifices made by its troops in the late ’90s and early ’00s. There will be more revolts of the Karuna mode, and the sooner the better.
Well, it is not my impatience that is relevant here… However, I would credit the ltte, which has been in the liberation business for quite a long time, with not only a comparative but also with an absolute advantage over me and, indeed, you in judging if (continued) negotiations or a return to armed struggle is the most promising means to achieve tamil aspirations. sometimes you simply have to put some trust in your leaders, that they have a somewhat better grasp of the larger picture than you…
True, but if after 25+ years, your leaders haven’t delivered on their core promises, you need to question if you’ve got the right people in leadership.
Bus Bombings is terrorism.
GoSL Air Force bombings of Tamil refugees is terrorism as well.
None of this can be denied.
Look up “collateral damage”, son.
The difference is the lack of intention, and the non-existence of a policy on the part of the GoSL, whereas with the LTTE there is a clear policy.
This week the the Sri Lankan army injured 14 people (3 critically) in a grenade explosion at the BMICH. Was this terrorism?
Whoever it was who made the decision to display live ordnance at the BMICH should be put up for the Parama Weera Darwin Award.
Oh, bombing and killings hundreds of Tamils seems like a “collateral damage” to you? How many LTTE’s did you actually kill? Certainly not “hundreds”.
These “collateral damages” have occured a countless number of times during the Singala Governments “war to liberate” the Tamils. I don’t think Tamils except this sort of “liberation” by the Singala Government. Why can’t you do anything whole-hearted to “liberate” the Tamil people?
There are so many excusses and so many ways to Justify killings of innocents. Don’t even try!
By that standard Lord Buddha, I guess the Sinhalese should be crying about being discriminated against for having innocent fisherman blown up outside the Colombo harbour three weeks ago. It’s not racism, Lord Buddha, it’s just carelessness, like the grenade explosion at the exhibition. In dealing with the JVP insurrection in 1987 to 1989 a lot of innocent Sinhalese people were rounded up and killed without trial. No Tamils were affected by that. Was that racism on the part of the government?
Of course not. It’s just a feature of a government and a country that has little respect for human rights. It’s terrible, but it isn’t motivated by racism.
please save eastern tamils from pro jaffna LTTA racissts.
thanks
Maran
Batticaloa
any updates coming ??